Backyard Breeders
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Backyard Breeders« on: August 02, 2006, 03:16:31 PM »
I have some questions about backyard breeders. I'd heard the term only occasionally before I came to BPO, but not as much as I do now. So I want to know, what exactly is a back yard breeder and who determines when someone is or not? What exactly do they do that is so bad? I'm not trying to stick up for them or anything. I'm sincerely asking. I know what things I think good breeders should do. Such as worm their pups and give them shots until they go to new homes. Make sure they are healthy by taking them to the vet for a checkup. Make sure they go to good homes and keep in contact with them after selling the pup to them. And take care of the puppies and parents of the pups. And if they can't find homes for the pups or can't care for them, then of course they shouldn't breed their dogs. If a breeder doesn't do that, then yes, I agree that they're not a good breeder. But other than that, what defines a "backyard breeder" exactly?
Zoey- Alaskan Malamute, 3 years
Dolly- Saint Bernard, 3 years
"To be loved by...any animal should fill us with awe-for we have not deserved it."
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Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 03:19:41 PM »
My definition is someone who really likes their own dog, and mates it without extensive genetic research, proper testing, or considerations of improving the breed as a whole. The pups are probably very loved, and raised at home, and great homes are often found for them, but these breedings are just done for fun, or to try to earn a little money.
Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 04:26:01 PM »
The back yard breeder is the single greatest cause of pet overpopulation . Back yard breeders usually do not have bad intentions, but the results of back yard breeding are devastating. The majority of purebred dogs come from this category in many popular breeds, as well as the majority of purebred dogs in rescue, or destroyed in pounds. Most are sold locally through newspaper ads - the responsibility ends when the purchaser's taillights disappear from sight. Many backyard breeders do not have the knowledge to properly raise a healthy, socialized litter, or to help the new owner with any problems that might arise.
Back yard breeders may act on a desire to make extra money, or simply out of ignorance. Sometimes back yard breeders will breed so "their children can experience the miracle of birth", or they mistakenly believe "every dog should have one litter." They may think their dog is so cute, he/she would make wonderful puppies, with little or no thought for the homes to which their puppies will go. Other back yard breeders see how much money legitimate breeders charge for pups and figure they could make some "easy money" too. Or, a back yard breeder may have a completely unplanned litter by accident.
Back yard breeders usually bring two breeding animals together regardless of their quality. They are not interested in scientific breeding. Their aim is to fulfill a personal need or goal, not to improve the breed and bring excellent quality dogs to the world. Since breed excellence is generally unimportant, the breeding dogs generally will not have been tested for genetic and health problems.
Back yard breeders are not necessarily bad people, they often come from middle to upper income families, and their dogs can be well loved and kept. However, getting a pup from a back yard breeder is a gamble:
the parents likely have not been screened for health problems
puppies usually are not sold with contracts
the breeders are not in it for the long haul
They will be working on new personal objectives in five years when your pet has a problem and you need help.
Although you might pay less for the breed of your choice from a pet store or backyard breeder, it's almost a given that in the long run, you'll pay a good deal more in vet bills and perhaps emotional bills (if the dog has to be euthanized due to a health or temperament problem), than you would from a reputable breeder.
The following stats are American, but the percentages will be comparable in Canada:
Of the 52.9 million dogs who live in the United States, approximately 2.9 million of them are killed in shelters annually (AVMA, 1998, and AHA, 1998). Where do all these dogs come from? Puppy mills churn out 20% of the total number of dogs whelped yearly, and roughly 1% are the results of feral dogs reproducing on their own. Less than 12% come from breeders who actively test their stock in conformation, obedience, and field trials. Backyard breeders, or people who breed their dogs without testing and certifying their stock, produce nearly 67% of all the dogs born annually in this country (Gardner, 1994)1. You will not pay more for a pet quality puppy from a reputable breeder than one from a backyard breeder. Unfortunately, there are backyard breeders everywhere: in kennel clubs, advertising in the newspaper, and also in dog publications. The difference is that the ethical breeder has spent time and effort developing the healthiest, soundest, and most representative of the breed possible
This is taken from:
http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/back_yard_breeders.htm
Back yard breeders may act on a desire to make extra money, or simply out of ignorance. Sometimes back yard breeders will breed so "their children can experience the miracle of birth", or they mistakenly believe "every dog should have one litter." They may think their dog is so cute, he/she would make wonderful puppies, with little or no thought for the homes to which their puppies will go. Other back yard breeders see how much money legitimate breeders charge for pups and figure they could make some "easy money" too. Or, a back yard breeder may have a completely unplanned litter by accident.
Back yard breeders usually bring two breeding animals together regardless of their quality. They are not interested in scientific breeding. Their aim is to fulfill a personal need or goal, not to improve the breed and bring excellent quality dogs to the world. Since breed excellence is generally unimportant, the breeding dogs generally will not have been tested for genetic and health problems.
Back yard breeders are not necessarily bad people, they often come from middle to upper income families, and their dogs can be well loved and kept. However, getting a pup from a back yard breeder is a gamble:
the parents likely have not been screened for health problems
puppies usually are not sold with contracts
the breeders are not in it for the long haul
They will be working on new personal objectives in five years when your pet has a problem and you need help.
Although you might pay less for the breed of your choice from a pet store or backyard breeder, it's almost a given that in the long run, you'll pay a good deal more in vet bills and perhaps emotional bills (if the dog has to be euthanized due to a health or temperament problem), than you would from a reputable breeder.
The following stats are American, but the percentages will be comparable in Canada:
Of the 52.9 million dogs who live in the United States, approximately 2.9 million of them are killed in shelters annually (AVMA, 1998, and AHA, 1998). Where do all these dogs come from? Puppy mills churn out 20% of the total number of dogs whelped yearly, and roughly 1% are the results of feral dogs reproducing on their own. Less than 12% come from breeders who actively test their stock in conformation, obedience, and field trials. Backyard breeders, or people who breed their dogs without testing and certifying their stock, produce nearly 67% of all the dogs born annually in this country (Gardner, 1994)1. You will not pay more for a pet quality puppy from a reputable breeder than one from a backyard breeder. Unfortunately, there are backyard breeders everywhere: in kennel clubs, advertising in the newspaper, and also in dog publications. The difference is that the ethical breeder has spent time and effort developing the healthiest, soundest, and most representative of the breed possible
This is taken from:
http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/back_yard_breeders.htm
My Paw Prints: http://www.dogster.com/dogs/670650
If your dog is overweight, you're not getting enough exercise
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Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 04:45:49 PM »
Saint and Mal mom, it's definately a very broad definition and open to wide range of interpretation . LOL looks like Liz and I were typing at the same time...but it looks like I'm along the same lines 
In it's most basic sense it is usually someone who breeds as a business (for profit only) without enough concern for either the dogs health and well being or the pups health, lifetime care and upbringing. They often breed too often (to maximize pups and profit) to the detriment of the female, breed dogs that have not had proper health testing, breed dogs that do not conform to the standard, or breed dogs knowingly that have temperment or health issues. It's difficult to make a profit if they do the registration, showing, health tests, worming, innoculations, vet checks, proper feeding and care. They may LOVE dogs but they breed for selfish reasons and the focus is not on improving the breed or being dedicated to the breed, but purely an "experience" or in most cases an "income". BYB and pup mills can be one and the same. Many genetic diseases don't show up until the dog is 2-3 yrs old, so a healthy "looking" pup isn't any indication of future development or health.
BYB's aren't usually in a position to take back any pup they sell, they wash their hands of responsibility the minute the cheque hits the bank. It doesn't mean they don't love dogs, they just aren't dedicated enough to stand by what they create, because it would dip into their "income". Their dogs may be beautiful to them, have wonderful temperments but...what about the grandparents, great-grandparents, and great-great grandparents (on both sides). When a serious genetic disaster happens...it's not only the pup that suffers, but the owner. BYB's usually go into it blindly, hoping for the best, using ignorance in a pinch...all the while planning the next cash crop.
Creating a life is a serious commitment and making it about money or just for the experience is what keeps the shelters full of unwanted dogs, or dogs with medical or behavioural problems.
So...to me a BYB doesn't:
Show (to ensure the dog is the best example of the breed) from an unbiased and experienced person.
Do genetic and orthapedic testing (or breed specific testing) and provide proof of at least 3-4 generations
Provide a realistic guarantee (not an exchange your pup for a better one
)
Pre-plan specific litters but has multiple litters from any and all fertile females.
Have a waiting list for most/all pups "before" they are ready for new homes
Have a contract to ensure the pup is cared for properly or returned and not bred, or bred only with their approval
Provide lifetime support or advice
Keep the pups until they are old enough for new homes
Screen and do research on the new owners
Provide references to new owners
Register the pups
Expect to lose any money doing it
Breed in the best interest of the breed as a whole, for health, temperment, conformation and the future of the pup itself.
I'm sure I missed allot, there are lots of good articles out there on responsible breeders, I'm just throwing this out from the top of my head
. Basically if it's a "hobby" it's casual, if it's casual...then they should not be creating a life they have no intention of taking responsibility for. If it's for money/income...it is never about the love of the breed, or even the love of the dog. Responsible Breeding is about both!!!
In it's most basic sense it is usually someone who breeds as a business (for profit only) without enough concern for either the dogs health and well being or the pups health, lifetime care and upbringing. They often breed too often (to maximize pups and profit) to the detriment of the female, breed dogs that have not had proper health testing, breed dogs that do not conform to the standard, or breed dogs knowingly that have temperment or health issues. It's difficult to make a profit if they do the registration, showing, health tests, worming, innoculations, vet checks, proper feeding and care. They may LOVE dogs but they breed for selfish reasons and the focus is not on improving the breed or being dedicated to the breed, but purely an "experience" or in most cases an "income". BYB and pup mills can be one and the same. Many genetic diseases don't show up until the dog is 2-3 yrs old, so a healthy "looking" pup isn't any indication of future development or health.
BYB's aren't usually in a position to take back any pup they sell, they wash their hands of responsibility the minute the cheque hits the bank. It doesn't mean they don't love dogs, they just aren't dedicated enough to stand by what they create, because it would dip into their "income". Their dogs may be beautiful to them, have wonderful temperments but...what about the grandparents, great-grandparents, and great-great grandparents (on both sides). When a serious genetic disaster happens...it's not only the pup that suffers, but the owner. BYB's usually go into it blindly, hoping for the best, using ignorance in a pinch...all the while planning the next cash crop.
Creating a life is a serious commitment and making it about money or just for the experience is what keeps the shelters full of unwanted dogs, or dogs with medical or behavioural problems.
So...to me a BYB doesn't:
Show (to ensure the dog is the best example of the breed) from an unbiased and experienced person.
Do genetic and orthapedic testing (or breed specific testing) and provide proof of at least 3-4 generations
Provide a realistic guarantee (not an exchange your pup for a better one
) Pre-plan specific litters but has multiple litters from any and all fertile females.
Have a waiting list for most/all pups "before" they are ready for new homes
Have a contract to ensure the pup is cared for properly or returned and not bred, or bred only with their approval
Provide lifetime support or advice
Keep the pups until they are old enough for new homes
Screen and do research on the new owners
Provide references to new owners
Register the pups
Expect to lose any money doing it
Breed in the best interest of the breed as a whole, for health, temperment, conformation and the future of the pup itself.
I'm sure I missed allot, there are lots of good articles out there on responsible breeders, I'm just throwing this out from the top of my head
. Basically if it's a "hobby" it's casual, if it's casual...then they should not be creating a life they have no intention of taking responsibility for. If it's for money/income...it is never about the love of the breed, or even the love of the dog. Responsible Breeding is about both!!!
RIP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz6fBNZtoFk
Paw Print ]http://www.dogster.com/dogs/758236]
SPCA http://my.e2rm.com/personalPage.aspx?registrationID=466181&LangPref=en-CA
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« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 04:50:26 PM by k9kooky »
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Question open to opinion: Sam was not properly bred...No health certs (though I had access to his lines vet records) no OFA...no contract...His parents were working dogs on a sheep farm & his breeder bred sporadically (Sam's dam had 4 litters in 7 yrs.) to keep herself in good guardians to protect her investment of sheep & sold the pups she didn't need almost specifically as gaurdians...Sa m was pretty much the exception to the rule...Sam's breeder bred two good gaurdian dogs to get good gaurdian dogs...Does this make her a byb or are all byb's not created equal? 
Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 04:59:27 PM »
Question open to opinion: Sam was not properly bred...No health certs (though I had access to his lines vet records) no OFA...no contract...His parents were working dogs on a sheep farm & his breeder bred sporadically (Sam's dam had 4 litters in 7 yrs.) to keep herself in good guardians to protect her investment of sheep & sold the pups she didn't need almost specifically as gaurdians...Sa m was pretty much the exception to the rule...Sam's breeder bred two good gaurdian dogs to get good gaurdian dogs...Does this make her a byb or are all byb's not created equal?
If you read my post you will see that there are exceptions to the rule and no generaliztions made
Kooky is also not making gerneralizatio ns as she too sees exceptions. My Paw Prints: http://www.dogster.com/dogs/670650
If your dog is overweight, you're not getting enough exercise
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Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 05:03:30 PM »
My GSD, Navarre was from a byb. As I was taking him to the car, after I had given her the money and she had told me that she had already sold a couple other pups the week before, I asked when his b'day was....he was 2 days shy of 5 weeks. Now if she didn't already have my cash and was pretty much in her house I probably would have given him back. I personally don't want a pup until it's at least 8 weeks old. He was covered with more fleas than my vet had ever seen, he ended up a week later with a bladder infection. I had some aggression problems with him for the first few years (luckily he turned into a great boy)! He had epilepsy, HD and arthritis in 3 vertebrea to the extent that it looked like an OLD dogs x-rays and he was 5. I had some digestion/intestinal problems with him that weren't totally figured out. And he died at 6. Ultimately he bloated, but I think that was secondary to something because he was acting like he wasn't feeling to great that week. I couldn't even tell you how much of my credit cards are from him but I will definitely pay the price for my next GSD. This is not to say that the breeders meant any harm but those two had no business being bred. If you get a pup from a byb it's definitely buyer beware. I won't do it again. My next dog will be another rescue and you walk into that with the same unknowing but at least I'm helping an unwanted pet. My next GSD however....... .
Navarre: GSD 9/13/99-5/14/06 patiently waiting
Issabeaux: GSD 1/27/07
Daphne: Boxer
Stone: Siamese mix
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Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 05:11:40 PM »
Osiris was from a BYB, he came with no shots, he was dewormed in front of us and he was only 5 weeks old. This dog has only ever been to the vet for routine shots and neuter, and for an injury inflicted by Atticus. He has an iron gullet and a perfect personality. Had I known what a byb was, I would never have ventured to her house to look at the little cutie.
Both Sable and Vixen came from a byb, but i would see her more as a hobbyist because she is not making a huge profit and she is genuinely in it for the pups. I see chihuahuas being sold for $1200-$5000, she only charges $350. They are healthy, home raised, vetted etc. They are also tested for luxating patella (sp)which is a big issue with chis. If a pup does not pass, she does not sell it, she keeps him/her. Only 1 litter every 2 years etc etc. She will also take any pup back, no matter what the length of time. Both dogs have also only been to the vet for routine shots etc. I can't say that all bybs are bad and in it for just the money, because I have 3 exceptions to the rule.
I just know if you visit a site like www.hoobly.com, you will be overrun with BYBs just out to make a buck. Like everything there is exception to the rule, you just really have to keep your eye out and never buy on impulse.
Both Sable and Vixen came from a byb, but i would see her more as a hobbyist because she is not making a huge profit and she is genuinely in it for the pups. I see chihuahuas being sold for $1200-$5000, she only charges $350. They are healthy, home raised, vetted etc. They are also tested for luxating patella (sp)which is a big issue with chis. If a pup does not pass, she does not sell it, she keeps him/her. Only 1 litter every 2 years etc etc. She will also take any pup back, no matter what the length of time. Both dogs have also only been to the vet for routine shots etc. I can't say that all bybs are bad and in it for just the money, because I have 3 exceptions to the rule.
I just know if you visit a site like www.hoobly.com, you will be overrun with BYBs just out to make a buck. Like everything there is exception to the rule, you just really have to keep your eye out and never buy on impulse.
My Paw Prints: http://www.dogster.com/dogs/670650
If your dog is overweight, you're not getting enough exercise
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Question open to opinion: Sam was not properly bred...No health certs (though I had access to his lines vet records) no OFA...no contract...His parents were working dogs on a sheep farm & his breeder bred sporadically (Sam's dam had 4 litters in 7 yrs.) to keep herself in good guardians to protect her investment of sheep & sold the pups she didn't need almost specifically as gaurdians...Sa m was pretty much the exception to the rule...Sam's breeder bred two good gaurdian dogs to get good gaurdian dogs...Does this make her a byb or are all byb's not created equal?
If you read my post you will see that there are exceptions to the rule and no generaliztions made
Kooky is also not making gerneralizatio ns as she too sees exceptions. I am just wondering if Sam's breeder is as awful as some...I've always been undecided BUT would not go that route again as Sam was a nightmare of fearfulness as a pup!...Lots of back peddeling to get him right...But, (ssshhhhhhhhhhh hh don't tell Pippin...He is my heart dog & always will be!) 
Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 06:41:07 PM »
Question open to opinion: Sam was not properly bred...No health certs (though I had access to his lines vet records) no OFA...no contract...His parents were working dogs on a sheep farm & his breeder bred sporadically (Sam's dam had 4 litters in 7 yrs.) to keep herself in good guardians to protect her investment of sheep & sold the pups she didn't need almost specifically as gaurdians...Sa m was pretty much the exception to the rule...Sam's breeder bred two good gaurdian dogs to get good gaurdian dogs...Does this make her a byb or are all byb's not created equal?
;)Well...this would fall under my phrase of: it's definately a very broad definition and open to wide range of interpretation . and I should have added: situations lol
To me true working dogs are in a different class, this would be the proverbial wrench ...lol..but still dependent on the individual, their motivation and dedication to the litters they produce and specifically their knowledge, awareness and commitment to health, where the pups end up, how they end up and with whom they end up.
Working dogs who had health/temperment issues likely wouldn't be bred - it would be counter-productive to the work they are required to do-and therefor their "reason" for breeding doesn't often come into question. It is valid for different reasons, and not financially motivated. They are breeding for a specific class of people, and bad breeding stock news would travel fast in the working world. Therefor there is less chance that the breeding will be casual but instead based on knowledge, research, experience and commitment to the breed for that purpose. They aren't over-breeding, and are breeding with a desire to inprove or maintain good working lines. Conformation isn't as important as ability, so showing isn't really a priority - but being aware of generations of health history/temperment still should be.
I don't think I would class that as financially motivated or hobby BYB, but I also think that dedication to a breed -for whatever purpose requires a lifetime commitment from the person, concern for the lifetime health, development, temperment and well-being of their creation. I think breeders of working dogs can still be BYB - but for some different reasons. Selling an oversupply of working dogs to non-working owners, selling bad temperment dogs as family pets, knowingly breeding dogs specifically for working qualities while overlooking genetic predisposition s of health or temperment. Overbreeding to maximize the chance of a superior working dog, then having no regard for the fate of the ones that don't make the cut. It just depends on the individual, their situation, their purpose, dedication and commitment to the breed, dogs, pups AND to the owner, whether it's working lines or not.
No contract, no guarantee, no proof of health and no lifetime commitment is "to me" not enough dedication that they stand up and take responsibility for the life they are responsible for creating, for whatever purpose. If a pup becomes an unusable by-product without the exact same concern shown for their health, well-being, temperment and upbringing, as the ones that have value as working stock, then I personally would still be questioning the motivation of the breeder. In the broadest sense...BYB are selfish breeders (whether thats for financial gain, or personal benefit only) - where knowledge, research, dedication, commitment and lifetime concern for their dogs and pups comes second.
RIP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz6fBNZtoFk
Paw Print ]http://www.dogster.com/dogs/758236]
SPCA http://my.e2rm.com/personalPage.aspx?registrationID=466181&LangPref=en-CA
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Working dogs are in a whole different class than show dogs. Many breeds have a line for conformation and a line for work...Which is where I jump in and say there is no such thing as an unbiased 3rd party. I don't know about where "you" are from, but here it's political and clique-ish. If you know the right people, you get somewhere. The AKC isn't the be all and end all. Yes, I want to show at some point but that doesn't mean that the AKC isn't what it is. At this point in time, it's a money machine. Pure and simple. Ok, I'll cut that rant a little short.
Back to working dogs. I don't know ANY breeders of working dogs that wouldn't take a pup back or exchange it or whatever. They are extremely proud of their lines. Their livelyhood is off of their stock and those dogs are a part of that. They'll put their working dogs up against ANY AKC show pup. It's true they rarely have a contract...bec ause they usually know the people the pups are going to. I realize only 15% of dogs are born in working environments but that's still a whole lot more than a "few".
Back to working dogs. I don't know ANY breeders of working dogs that wouldn't take a pup back or exchange it or whatever. They are extremely proud of their lines. Their livelyhood is off of their stock and those dogs are a part of that. They'll put their working dogs up against ANY AKC show pup. It's true they rarely have a contract...bec ause they usually know the people the pups are going to. I realize only 15% of dogs are born in working environments but that's still a whole lot more than a "few".
Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006, 08:26:44 AM »
Home breeders may or may NOT be involved with registered dogs.
Some of the best AKC registry breeders are home breeders who spend thousands of dollars on pre-breed testing, on puppy exams, on researching pedigrees and interviewing potential studs or dams, spend even more thousands of hours socializing puppies in their kitchens, living, bed and bathrooms and who practically FBI background check potential puppy parents. Some other home breeders are in love with dogs that no registry recognizes, but they put the same love and concern into their dogs and puppies as any registry recognized breeder. This is usually how a rare or disappearing breed is saved--by a few home breeders who love their dogs too much to lose them forever.
Backyard breeders get that name because their dogs are yard bred and yard raised, and puppies are generally not well secondarily socialized with people, making them problematic from the start; some dogs never fully get over their lack of early socialization.
And I'll take on the AKC rant, since I walked past the puppies in the window last night and am still steaming mad about the "AKC registered" signs on the glass in front of those little faces!!!!!
BYB's and puppy mills are ABLE to make huge profits off dogs because all AKC requires to register a litter is the name and address of the owners of the Dam and Sire, a few other boxes checked on a 1 page form, and a Visa or Mastercard number. That's it. That's all AKC asks for, and if you doubt me, go to the AKC site, and look at the downloadable form for registering a litter. It's appalling. (Yes, I am the local president of "AKC Critics Not Anonymous", I'm afraid. I think AKC's tolerance tars a lot of truly great home breeders with the BYB brush. It's why you've even asked this question!)
Neither does AKC require any record of health certifications from new owners who are transferring the regsitration of their dogs after purchase from the breeder. It's supposedly a BREEDING REGISTRY, mind you--you'd think health certs would be critical, but they couldn't care less if you poked them with a cattle prod.
They put on a public face of 'presuming the honor' of every breeder--pretending everyone who uses the AKC registry is an honest dog lover who is doing all the recommended testing, all the recommended vet checks and all the recommended client screening before placing puppies in homes. AKC knows that this presumption is a big fat lie, but doing anything to change the status quo would cost them big bucks.
A BYB or a puppy miller breeds 'pure' dogs that have these easily obtained AKC registration numbers, and sends in a litter form with a Visa number. Per their own rules, AKC doesn't require DNA profiling for males until they sire more than 7 litters a year--which means that a byb with 3 females and a male can have puppies ready to sell every 2 months, year round, forever, without AKC even questioning them. You do the math if they keep some of their puppies and line breed!!!
Maybe I need to just stay out of The Beverly Center until they finish re-installing the other escalator so I don't have to walk past the Puppy Jail on my way to buy Body Shop Vitamin C night creme and grapeseed body butter.
Some of the best AKC registry breeders are home breeders who spend thousands of dollars on pre-breed testing, on puppy exams, on researching pedigrees and interviewing potential studs or dams, spend even more thousands of hours socializing puppies in their kitchens, living, bed and bathrooms and who practically FBI background check potential puppy parents. Some other home breeders are in love with dogs that no registry recognizes, but they put the same love and concern into their dogs and puppies as any registry recognized breeder. This is usually how a rare or disappearing breed is saved--by a few home breeders who love their dogs too much to lose them forever.
Backyard breeders get that name because their dogs are yard bred and yard raised, and puppies are generally not well secondarily socialized with people, making them problematic from the start; some dogs never fully get over their lack of early socialization.
And I'll take on the AKC rant, since I walked past the puppies in the window last night and am still steaming mad about the "AKC registered" signs on the glass in front of those little faces!!!!!
BYB's and puppy mills are ABLE to make huge profits off dogs because all AKC requires to register a litter is the name and address of the owners of the Dam and Sire, a few other boxes checked on a 1 page form, and a Visa or Mastercard number. That's it. That's all AKC asks for, and if you doubt me, go to the AKC site, and look at the downloadable form for registering a litter. It's appalling. (Yes, I am the local president of "AKC Critics Not Anonymous", I'm afraid. I think AKC's tolerance tars a lot of truly great home breeders with the BYB brush. It's why you've even asked this question!)
Neither does AKC require any record of health certifications from new owners who are transferring the regsitration of their dogs after purchase from the breeder. It's supposedly a BREEDING REGISTRY, mind you--you'd think health certs would be critical, but they couldn't care less if you poked them with a cattle prod.
They put on a public face
of 'presuming the honor' of every breeder--pretending everyone who uses the AKC registry is an honest dog lover who is doing all the recommended testing, all the recommended vet checks and all the recommended client screening before placing puppies in homes. AKC knows that this presumption is a big fat lie, but doing anything to change the status quo would cost them big bucks. A BYB or a puppy miller breeds 'pure' dogs that have these easily obtained AKC registration numbers, and sends in a litter form with a Visa number. Per their own rules, AKC doesn't require DNA profiling for males until they sire more than 7 litters a year--which means that a byb with 3 females and a male can have puppies ready to sell every 2 months, year round, forever, without AKC even questioning them. You do the math if they keep some of their puppies and line breed!!!
Maybe I need to just stay out of The Beverly Center until they finish re-installing the other escalator so I don't have to walk past the Puppy Jail on my way to buy Body Shop Vitamin C night creme and grapeseed body butter.
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Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2006, 02:26:33 PM »
See, I'm asking because I've been trying to figure out if both my girls came from what would be called a backyard breeder. Here's the facts. I bought Zoey dirt cheap at 5 weeks old. I first of all think that's too young, but she was fully weaned so I didn't question it. Zoey's dad was AKC registered, mom was CKC. Zoey didn't come with any papers or guarantees. She came with some food they'd been feeding her, vet info about her weight, complete worming schedule and shots that she'd been give. So I have no doubt that they took care of her, but they have never attempted to make contact with us, because they didn't ask for names or anything when we got her.
Dolly, on the other hand is different. Her mom and dad were registered with CKC. Dolly came with papers to register her with for CKC. She had been given her shots, wormings, and flea and tick control on schedule. Already had her rabies shot. Got her cheap, but not as cheap as Zoey. The breeder owned her mom but not her dad. And she was 5 months old when we got her. She came with a 1 year guarantee that said, as was mentioned before, if something was wrong with her, we could give her back and replace her with a dog of the same value from them. They showed me what brushes to use for grooming, including giving me a sheet with info on grooming Saints, what to feed them, and she gave me a Puppy Care Kit made by Hills- Science Diet company with a record book in it for all Dolly's vet records. However, as good as they sound, I have tried to contact them just to give them good updates on Dolly as she's grown over the year and they have not responded once.
What do you guys think
Dolly, on the other hand is different. Her mom and dad were registered with CKC. Dolly came with papers to register her with for CKC. She had been given her shots, wormings, and flea and tick control on schedule. Already had her rabies shot. Got her cheap, but not as cheap as Zoey. The breeder owned her mom but not her dad. And she was 5 months old when we got her. She came with a 1 year guarantee that said, as was mentioned before, if something was wrong with her, we could give her back and replace her with a dog of the same value from them. They showed me what brushes to use for grooming, including giving me a sheet with info on grooming Saints, what to feed them, and she gave me a Puppy Care Kit made by Hills- Science Diet company with a record book in it for all Dolly's vet records. However, as good as they sound, I have tried to contact them just to give them good updates on Dolly as she's grown over the year and they have not responded once.
What do you guys think
Zoey- Alaskan Malamute, 3 years
Dolly- Saint Bernard, 3 years
"To be loved by...any animal should fill us with awe-for we have not deserved it."
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Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2006, 03:54:46 PM »
See, I'm asking because I've been trying to figure out if both my girls came from what would be called a backyard breeder.
Guessing from your description, I would say that Zoey was definately from a BYB. Key words: Cheap, 5 weeks (much too young), no papers (and did you get to see the parents papers or take their word for it?-no proof of pedigree), no health checks on parents/ancestors (probably the most important aspect of all), no concern for who, or where their pup is going...means no interest in the pups well-being...once the cheque is in hand. Giving them away cheap at 5 weeks makes faster profit..and more room for the next litter!! They may love dogs...but sounds like they love money more
Which isn't to say Zoey isn't perfect...and you wouldn't have her any other way just that they are not committed to the breed or the pups they are responsible for producing...an d have no concern about the future health of the pup or what it may inherit from it's ancestors.
Dolly...sounds more like a legit breeder. No mention of health checks on parents though?...She would be cheaper at 5 months than at 8 weeks, and it indicates they didn't dump her at 8 wks but kept her until they found a suitable home. A one year guarantee is almost like none at all...as is expecting (knowing most won't) an owner to give up a pup they have become attached to...but it's not uncommon for a guarantee to only be a year (ours was 2 yrs).
Giving you care, grooming info and puppy kits shows a desire to make sure the pup is properly cared for. I rarely hear from my breeder - she is just soooo busy all the time, but when I really need her - for advice - she gets back to me...though sometimes it's still a week or so. She always says she LOVES the updates, just doesn't often have the time to respond. So...the not responding may just be because they are satified all is well, which they would know from your updates.
JMO
from the info you provided RIP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz6fBNZtoFk
Paw Print ]http://www.dogster.com/dogs/758236]
SPCA http://my.e2rm.com/personalPage.aspx?registrationID=466181&LangPref=en-CA
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Re: Backyard Breeders« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2006, 02:13:15 AM »
Bubba and Lola both came from BYB's. IMO they are 2 classes of BYB's. Those who health test (very few and far between) and those were are in it to make a quick buck.
Bubba's parents did have all heath testing done, but were never shown like they were suppose to be. I never bothered filling out the CKC papers to register him but he is registerable. I still worry about his hips because I'm a paranoid tool.
Well that and I never saw his pedigree so I have no idea if HD runs in his lines.
Now Lola.. Her parents have NO health testing, She had NO shots.. nothing. When I finally got ahold of the 'breeder' I was just told that both parents have no hip problems. ::)I guess I'll have to cross my fingers that as she grows she doesn't develop any ortho problems. Even vet x-rays for hips would have been better than nothing. She's in not registerable either as far as I know. I'm assuming if they were that she would have registered the entire litter. The no health testing is a major thumbs down for me though. But I knew when I took her home that she came from a BYB, so I wasn't expecting much in that regard. One good thing thought is that she does truly care where the pups went and has been in contact with me since. But if something was to crop up health wise I doubt she'd be offering to pay for it.
The CKC isn't any better than the AKC. I see BYB ads all the time for CKC registered pups.
Bubba's parents did have all heath testing done, but were never shown like they were suppose to be. I never bothered filling out the CKC papers to register him but he is registerable. I still worry about his hips because I'm a paranoid tool.
Well that and I never saw his pedigree so I have no idea if HD runs in his lines. Now Lola.. Her parents have NO health testing, She had NO shots.. nothing. When I finally got ahold of the 'breeder' I was just told that both parents have no hip problems. ::)I guess I'll have to cross my fingers that as she grows she doesn't develop any ortho problems.
Even vet x-rays for hips would have been better than nothing. She's in not registerable either as far as I know. I'm assuming if they were that she would have registered the entire litter. The no health testing is a major thumbs down for me though. But I knew when I took her home that she came from a BYB, so I wasn't expecting much in that regard. One good thing thought is that she does truly care where the pups went and has been in contact with me since. But if something was to crop up health wise I doubt she'd be offering to pay for it. The CKC isn't any better than the AKC. I see BYB ads all the time for CKC registered pups.
Lola - Saint Bernard
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 02:16:20 AM by Lyn »
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