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Mixed Breeds => Mixed Breed Discussion => : Kiahpyr May 16, 2006, 07:43:06 AM
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Yesterday Kitana nipped me in the face. I was sitting in a chair ignoring her because she wouldn't leave me alone. Normally she just barks and jumps up. This time she jumped directly at my face and caught my lip. So I grabbed her muzzled and said NO. She then turned on her back.
Then other day Raeanne(my daughter) had Kitana toy and wouldn't give it to her. So Kitana went to grab the toy and got Raeanne's hand. Kitana didn't break the skin but you could see the teeth marks. Sometimes when you're walking Kitana will grab your pants with her teeth. She has always been a mouthy girl. I thought I could handle and train her out of it. I'm not having any luck.
I need to stop this behaviour now or Kitana will no longer be in this house. I have tried grabbing her muzzle with a stern no, but that's not sinking in her thick head. The only thing that works is a squirt bottle, but I don't always have it with me. Then I have to be proactive about it. Any advice?
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If she's still small enough to "manhandle" try that.Â
Last night I had had enough of Grace blowing me off when I tell her no. And I have done this before with the breeders advise. When she was little I would roll her on her back and growl and snarl and hold a glare till she looked away. We did that with Lady too when she acted up.Â
Last night I laid on top of Grace and gave her my best "alpha dog". She swallowed her clump of TP, but she got the point. We laid there for more than 5 minutes staring at eachother and I growled and snarled. The rest of the night she was a different dog.Â
I know it sounds brutal...but it gives them the idea that YOU are in control and they'd better listen cuz YOU are the big dog. This works with dogs who are large and heavy too...it's a constant battle with dogs who have developed some bad habits. We roll Lady over once in a while too even though she's over 100 pounds.Â
Just remember...the y want and need structure and direction. So do you.
With biting...I think just read an article yesterday about that. I left it at home this morning. PM your email addy and I'll fax it to my email and email it to you.
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Question! When you "scold" her...what does your voice sound like? High pitched and excited? Or calm and low, deep and authoritative? The difference in my aggrivated high pitched excited I've had enough scold that makes Grace do it anyway and worse and my calm, deep I'm the big dog voice that makes Grace think before she does makes a world of difference.
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Thanks Lin! I just pm'd you.
I do the NILF thing with Kitana, but she just doesn't seem to get it. She knows "leave it" cause she eats and chews on everything. She's just too smart for her own good. I'm at my wits end with her. Yesterday she peed on her bed right in front of me! I know she did it on purpose. I never had any problems like this with Kiah and she's suppose to be the stubborn one. LOL!
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Question! When you "scold" her...what does your voice sound like? High pitched and excited? Or calm and low, deep and authoritative? The difference in my aggrivated high pitched excited I've had enough scold that makes Grace do it anyway and worse and my calm, deep I'm the big dog voice that makes Grace think before she does makes a world of difference.
It's a deep stern NO! No high pitch sound here!
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Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! Repeatition!!! :) ;D
I get sick of it myself telling Grace the same thing over and over...God I get sick of it! But she's learning and has come a long way. So have I really.
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It seems like you have a very drivey dog...that needs constant mental and physical stimulation... she nipped you in the face for attention (even though it is not polite)she seems like a dog always on the go....
My brother has a poodle that I am with everday from 8-3 and well the pup (5.5mths) needs constant stimulation and excerises....
how much time can you honestly give to her in regards to working her persay... If you do walks, just take her, do lots of OB and differnt things to mentally exhaust her as well as physcially and seems like you might have to take a lengthy walk at that...
I would put her on schudele of crate, exercise, alone time, work, etc....so she knows what comes next
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I haven't had issues with real nipping ....but I've had other issues and the Mr. Can thing (nails or rocks in a can and give a good shake) worked wonders... well, its worked for my Weim...but Riley my Beagle is a little deaf to the noise... its worked great with teaching Duffy not to chase the kitties and to get him to stop some annoying behavior... so Mr. Can is my steady when I need help on something...
xoxo marianna
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Definately the can. Loud noises if your dog responds is great. Grace reacts to the...even if I stomp my foot loudly she gets that. Water bottles...they do so so for Grace but great for other dogs.
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I'm so glad you brought up this problem. I haven't had actual nipping (yet) but Einstein gets more rambunctious all the time and we walk for 30-60 minutes every day. I needed to be reminded to do obedience, too! He seems to be oblivious to my "hush" when he's barking -- I am going to get a can ready tonight. I'd like to know more about teaching him to lay down and stay -- and also to come. He's USUALLY good about it, but I don't feel like I'm really in control -- it's just that he's ready to go so he'll come. At first treats did the trick, but he doesn't have any interest in them anymore. He KNOWS when we're going for a walk and he gets so excited! I make him sit and stay before we go out the door and if he runs for it when the door opens, I bring him back inside and make him do it right.
In the past when I've tried rolling him over, he thinks I'm playing and he jumps up and runs around. How strenuously should I force him to lay down? And using my best "boss" voice, and mean look, doesn't have ANY impact when he's excited.
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Poor chara did so much OB on walks... LOL... we did long sits, down,s stays, ups, paw, played with tug etc... and zero too...
and with dogs, give and inch they will take a mile...remeber they are dogs and dont share or care, if you dont stay in control and show stuff they will eventually try and take over
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Some people may not agree with this, but Bella had me at the end of my rope also. If I wasn't paying attention to her, she would come up behind me and either grab my shirt or my pants and pull hard! She ripped several shirts. She also would put her mouth on me all of the time. I tried all of the dominance things, etc, etc. I finally bought a shock collar. I've rarely had to even use the shock part, I just use the beeper (tone) part. When she is getting out of hand, I tell her no and beep it until she does what I want. If she doesn't pay attention, I will give her a small shock. It doesn't hurt her, but gets her attention. She has become a completely different lovable baby!!!
Yesterday Kitana nipped me in the face. I was sitting in a chair ignoring her because she wouldn't leave me alone. Normally she just barks and jumps up. This time she jumped directly at my face and caught my lip. So I grabbed her muzzled and said NO. She then turned on her back.
Then other day Raeanne(my daughter) had Kitana toy and wouldn't give it to her. So Kitana went to grab the toy and got Raeanne's hand. Kitana didn't break the skin but you could see the teeth marks. Sometimes when you're walking Kitana will grab your pants with her teeth. She has always been a mouthy girl. I thought I could handle and train her out of it. I'm not having any luck.
I need to stop this behaviour now or Kitana will no longer be in this house. I have tried grabbing her muzzle with a stern no, but that's not sinking in her thick head. The only thing that works is a squirt bottle, but I don't always have it with me. Then I have to be proactive about it. Any advice?
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I'm so glad you brought up this problem. I haven't had actual nipping (yet) but Einstein gets more rambunctious all the time and we walk for 30-60 minutes every day. I needed to be reminded to do obedience, too! He seems to be oblivious to my "hush" when he's barking -- I am going to get a can ready tonight. I'd like to know more about teaching him to lay down and stay -- and also to come. He's USUALLY good about it, but I don't feel like I'm really in control -- it's just that he's ready to go so he'll come. At first treats did the trick, but he doesn't have any interest in them anymore. He KNOWS when we're going for a walk and he gets so excited! I make him sit and stay before we go out the door and if he runs for it when the door opens, I bring him back inside and make him do it right.
In the past when I've tried rolling him over, he thinks I'm playing and he jumps up and runs around. How strenuously should I force him to lay down? And using my best "boss" voice, and mean look, doesn't have ANY impact when he's excited.
Rolling a dog over is submission. You have to let him know it's not play roll over. When I roll either of my girls over they think it's play too...until mommy or daddy who outweigh them... are right there on top of them, sitting on them, straddling them, holding them down. you may not have to hold them down as forcefully as time goes by...but you may need to put your back into it at first. It doesn't hurt the dog...just their pride. Use your best judgement. A mother dog would do the same thing but would probably put some teeth into it.
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Most alphas dont roll their pack mates and very rarely use force. and it is quite a dangerous thing to do in regards to getting bit... force doesnt need to be used... body language and consistency... i have never had to 'roll' any dog and my chara gave me a good run for a while...
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Some people may not agree with this, but Bella had me at the end of my rope also. If I wasn't paying attention to her, she would come up behind me and either grab my shirt or my pants and pull hard! She ripped several shirts. She also would put her mouth on me all of the time. I tried all of the dominance things, etc, etc. I finally bought a shock collar. I've rarely had to even use the shock part, I just use the beeper (tone) part. When she is getting out of hand, I tell her no and beep it until she does what I want. If she doesn't pay attention, I will give her a small shock. It doesn't hurt her, but gets her attention. She has become a completely different lovable baby!!!
Yesterday Kitana nipped me in the face. I was sitting in a chair ignoring her because she wouldn't leave me alone. Normally she just barks and jumps up. This time she jumped directly at my face and caught my lip. So I grabbed her muzzled and said NO. She then turned on her back.
Then other day Raeanne(my daughter) had Kitana toy and wouldn't give it to her. So Kitana went to grab the toy and got Raeanne's hand. Kitana didn't break the skin but you could see the teeth marks. Sometimes when you're walking Kitana will grab your pants with her teeth. She has always been a mouthy girl. I thought I could handle and train her out of it. I'm not having any luck.
I need to stop this behaviour now or Kitana will no longer be in this house. I have tried grabbing her muzzle with a stern no, but that's not sinking in her thick head. The only thing that works is a squirt bottle, but I don't always have it with me. Then I have to be proactive about it. Any advice?
I think a shock training device is necessary if all other techniques fail. Some high spirited dogs can be very successfully trained this way. It's not cruel...they wouldn't make them if it was cruel.
Luckily we haven't had to resort to this...invisib le fence sells little shock things that look like fire alarms that keep pets from going into certain areas of the house etc. also.
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Poor chara did so much OB on walks... LOL... we did long sits, down,s stays, ups, paw, played with tug etc... and zero too...
and with dogs, give and inch they will take a mile...remeber they are dogs and dont share or care, if you dont stay in control and show stuff they will eventually try and take over
I'm glad you made that point. I've said that in different ways a few times. Staying in control is a healthy thing...not mean...not cruel. It's for the safety of everyone in the house and outside the house.Â
I just found out last night that some of the neighbors are scared of my girls. I couldn't imagine why really since I know they're sweet. But the neighborhood nibnose came over to meet them on our walk and was surprised that they really aren't mean and they just look kinda intimidating. I told him to spread the news that they aren't mean and if people are afraid of them rest assured their invisible fence won't let them out even if they try.Â
We are training them not to bark at people walking by and things like that so they don't get a bad reputation (unlike the neighbors new American Pit Bull who last night gave us what for while his people where outside watching me try to contain Lady and Grace)Â Oh I was mad.Â
Training ... whatever form it takes ... is part of the responsibility to the dog, the neighbors and YOU!Â
I'm not trying to be a big know it all in any way. I just know I'm one of the people who train demandingly and harshly.
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Cinder would nip and herd the cats and me when she was little. I tried standing still and ignoring her and telling her no too. But the thing that got her attention the quickest was when I stepped back into her and put a little weight on her toes. Not very fun to nip legs when the large animal steps on you. Self-preservation stopped that behavior very quickly. But she does sound like she has high drive. You might try taking her to agility or fly ball to wear her down mentally and physically. That has helped my girls immensely.
Kat
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... or Kitana will no longer be in this house.Â
I really hope that it doesn't come to that. That would be very sad after all you went through to bring her home to you. :'(
I hope you will consult a professional trainer before giving up on her, she is a smart girl and I'm betting she has great potential. But it sounds to me like she just needs some firm training, she needs to know what behavior is unacceptable.
If she is a really mouthy girl, maybe more chew toys and some controlled games of tug o'war are in order? Give her an outlet for that energy.
I think you can help her out of this. :)
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Hey, April...
I haven't read all of these responses, but I'll tell you what. I've been reading "Bones would Rain from the Sky" while I've been in the mountains, and man. It sure did give me good insite and direction with regard to dog behavior. You may want to try it.
I saw something about rolling....I think its a bad idea.
Ok, more later...good luck. Read the book.
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I have had a 1.5 year old "used" dog for 6 weeks now. Around week three I tried using canine type dominance with him. If you are going to use this method, make darn sure that you can consistenly roll the dog. I can't. So now my husband is alpha and I am beta. An animal behaviorist told me not to play tug with him until he has more self control. If he gets too wound up, I'll get the worst of it.
My dog had to learn that I am NOT a dog and he can't wrestle with me like a dog or mouth me like I am a dog. My guy isn't viscious or excessively dominant. He just was relating to me like I am a dog. He 'gets' it with me now. Now he needs to be better with the kids. Good Luck!
I saw a great article called "Your Pushy Dog.http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=106&A=2262&S=0
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Thanks for all the advice. I am researching everything I can. I want to make it clear that Kitana is not being aggressive. She just wants a attention and ignoring makes her more insane. Yesterday she was very good. I think she knew I was still mad at her. She just doesn't seem to sensitive to feelings. She's so happy go lucky!! Nothing bothers her!
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Looks like you've gotten a lot of advice already. :) I just saw this and I replied to a similar post on another board except it was for a Dane puppy. It seemed to fit your situation as well so I figured I'd crosspost my answer here too. Just substitue Kitana instead of Thor. ;)
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My favorite dog training mantra is "Interrupt, Redirect and Praise". This works especially well with young puppies, but usually works for all dogs.
First pick what behavior you WANT him to do. Dogs have an easier time learning to do something than NOT to do something. So as an example I'll just say you want Thor to lay down instead of biting. For interrupting I say "AHT!" in a stern voice, it seems to work better than "NO" for me.
So if Thor came up to me and started nipping/biting I'd say "AHT!", tell him to "down" (or lure him if he's still in training), make him stay for 30 seconds to a minute, praise him THEN release him. (Remember to praise before releasing or he'll think he's good for getting up). If he gets up before I said so, then I'd just make him lay down again. He'll learn quickly, though it does take repetition, especially the first couple times.
Some people choose to give the dog/puppy a toy to bite on instead, which works well for other people. However, I wanted to teach them self restraint too, so that's why I did the down/sit first. I usually gave them the toy after I release them so they didn't make the connection "bite=toy".
Good luck and remember, different methods work for different dogs. Take it all in, use what works for Thor and store the rest for possible later use with other dogs.
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I think you can do it April. Kitana seems like an extremely intelligent dog who needs stimulation. I think that working in a lot of obedience work would probably help calm her down a bit as well as teaching her a "settle" command. Brain work tires them out as well as exercise and its a good idea to use them together. If people rely only on exercise, then they aren't really teaching the dog to control itself.Â
Another thing is don't underestimate her, puppies can learn "wait" and "settle" fairly easy. Expecting too little can sometimes be as bad as expecting too much. You just have to find that happy medium. Good luck with her hun! :)
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Thanks for all the advice. I am researching everything I can. I want to make it clear that Kitana is not being aggressive. She just wants a attention and ignoring makes her more insane. Yesterday she was very good. I think she knew I was still mad at her. She just doesn't seem to sensitive to feelings. She's so happy go lucky!! Nothing bothers her!
That sounds exactly like Sophie aka "the brat" :), but less mouthy, she just gets upset if she can't be in the same room and you're not paying attention to her. If I correct her in a stern voice she growls at me, because I guess I sound like I am growling. But it is all in fun to her, she is just a very vocal girl and wants to play. I know this is bad, but it cracks me up big time when she fusses back at me, We have had to turn our head away so she doesn't see us laughing.
I think in our case, she is in the Brat stage, and maybe a touch of separation anxiety. She is getting better and better every day, as we work with her. But she is very smart, and I know she is going to be a button-pusher.
Two things I have tried with her that usually always work, but not with her.. Are a can with pennies thrown as a distraction, or to bang on a pan with a wooden spoon as a distraction when she is doing something she shouldn't be doing. They just don't have the desired effect at all, she barks and play growls and goes into the front-down puppy-play stance. Ahh Well.. Patience,persistance and positive reinforcement is paying off here so far, just gotta get through the puppy/brat stage, but man she cracks me up :) I think Kitana is like our girl and the negative reinforcement doesn't have the desired effect.
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April, How is Kitana doing today?...Mine don't nip for attention but we get whacked with the "dirty devil dog paw" :-\ :D That hurts too!