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Pit Bulls => Pit Bull Discussions & Pictures => : Binky October 17, 2006, 11:48:13 AM
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I have a problem...One of the girls who works for us has a young male Pitbull. I just found out that she is buying a female pup today and is planning to breed them-"just once."
While the girl is a nice person and is knowledgeable about Pits, I can't believe that she's going to do this. She rents and apartment,is very young and has a lot of responsibiliti es besides the dogs, and is not exactly financially well off. Not only that, but she is getting rid of her cat to do this (my husband already said I can't take her :( )Is there any tactful way to tell her what a bad idea this is? I don't want to upset her as she's one of our best employees and we really do like her, but I feel that this is just terribly irresponsible. Is it my place to say anything?
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You could just bring it up as in "maybe you should wait until you get a house cause it would be so much harder in an apartment" or something to that effect. I have never bred dogs, so I am not sure how much work is involved, but I would imagine a lot. Best of luck and sorry I couldn't be of more help :(
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Maybe find a few sites that are about breeding pitbulls (a few good ones where they discuss the incredible amount of work and responsibility). It might be enough to make her realize she'll be in over her head. I was amazed the first time I read through the breeding process for a breed. And all the what ifs (like, what if the mother's milk doesn't come in, or there's complications) and things like vet trips for check ups and shots (that will cost tons)... Maybe she just "thinks" it would be a really cool experience but hasn't really looked into it enough to know what's involved? Just a thought...
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I agree, find some sites to show her, if she loves the breed, she will understand that it might be better to wait to breed when she has all the information and all the resorces. Hope all works out! Best of luck!
~K
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*sigh*
I might be a bit jaded, but in my experience, it is VERY hard to convince someone not to breed dogs. I mean, if they are already on their way to doing it, they clearly do not have the same values/ideas/perceptions/knowledge..whatever...as me (or in this case, you). So, its hard to change that. It is also hard to say anything tactfully.
Being a person that doesn't keep my mouth shut when someone is doing something wrong like breeding pittbulls, I've found that I usually end up making the person defensive. Its hard. But, specifically with that breed, perhaps you could show her on petfinder how many homeless pitties there are, and explain to her how many are euthanized because of the epidemic. In our HS, there are always so many pitties and pitty crosses. Explain to her that by making more, she is causing someone that might have adopted one from the HS to get one of hers, thereby lessening the pitties' at the HS chances of getting adopted.
Or....wop her over the head with a wiffle ball bat. ;)
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I vote for wiffle ball bat, or something even harder. ;D
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I'll send you pictures of my neighbor's starving pit bulls that are kept chained up 24/7 without shelter, food, and often water and that I can't get the cops to respond to. Maybe that would change her mind.
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How about saying "oh, so if you're eager to breed then you will surely want to be sure to do everything that a responsible breeder does because you want to be careful not to be labeled a backyard breeder....I am happy to help...." and then provide her with material that clearly outlines what a responsible breeder does and doesn't do, the required health certifications (which can be costly) that must be done to determine if your dogs are breeding quality and rule out genetic problems being passed on, info. from the Pitbull Club of america (go to their website) and hopefully they have information about responsible breeding and ideally a code of ethics to give her. And then, perhaps some documentation showing the statistics of homeless pitbulls. I know that all of the pitbull rescues in the southeast region of the U.S. (8 states) are not even taking in any because they are so overcrowded. I would also be sure to include for her how critical it is to temperament test her dogs and then all of the puppies given the breed.
There are many websites that outline the critical things to look for in a breeder - I have some on my own site if it helps: www.naturalk9. com and then go to "Looking for a Puppy?"
This usually works for me - I offer to help and provide info to them since they have never done it before and by the time I have given them everything and gone through it - they realize how little they know and that they aren't being responsible if they can't afford to temperament test, research pedigrees and health, get all needed health certifications, understand the breeding process and costs with c-sections, complications, and care, and offering a responsible contract to buyers that includes always taking all of those puppies back and being ultimately responsible for them - she created them after all.
Good luck!
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This is exactly what we need in the world, more pit puppies that are gonna get a bad rep. because they weren't raised to have good temperments.
Here's what you do...as soon as the puppies are born you break in and take them to the nearest Pitt rescue in your area. Cut out the middle man and just take them there.
Seriously...I don't advocate theft, but this is just not gonna work. I live in an apartment with Lucah and my wife, we picked the OEM breed because we knew that they like to be indoors and need minimal excercise. We are still going to buy a house for him, but we knew that other breeds just wouldn't make it in an apartment with only a small yard. Pitts need space and to run, this is just a bad idea.
Suggesting for this woman to "read" things probably won't work. She doesn't seem like a "reader". If she was she would know what could happen if she does this.
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Thanks for the suggestions but I'm pretty sure there's nothing I can do. Today, after work, her BF showed up with not one but TWO puppies!!! ??? My husband asked if they'd had their shots and she said no. So, not only is she going to be breeding but she got them from a crappy, BYB for $100 each- gee, what a bargain, especially if you never plan to take them to the vet. She now has 2 unneutered male pits and an unspayed female who will probably be pregant before her 1st bday. It's so depressing.
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Oh, how sad... Especially because they are pits and are already struggling so hard with a poor reputation. Not only is it how they are raised that can lead to a poor temperment, but poor breeding practises with poor tempermented dogs can lead to alot of the problems with pits. THREE INTACT DOGS???? TWO MALES AND A FEMALE???? Sadly your co-worker will most definaltly be contributing to the horrible statistics on pit bulls. She is creating the perfect recipe for disaster. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this person on a daily basis, and who knows, maybe the chance will arise that you can offer some good advice without seeming like the know-it-all bad guy.
And if all fails....I agree with Lucah's Folks ;).
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That is really sad! So now they have 3 dogs? But what you said is true...and people are going to do whatever it is that they want to do. I'm so sorry cause you are going to have to hear all about it as soon as the female gets pregnant. I wish there was something more you could do, but people like this exsist everywhere. ((hugs))
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I dunno, Im not trying to offend anyone, but I think you guys can be a bit harsh to people who are not as knowledgeable about dogs as you. I dont think it would be anyones place to tell her that its a bad idea. One, she will get defensive towards you, and two it will probably just make her want to do it more because you're making it sound like she's not capable. If you want my opinion, print the websites for her, but tell her you're doing it to help her out, not to help her "see the light". But, thats just my opinion.
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I dunno, Im not trying to offend anyone, but I think you guys can be a bit harsh to people who are not as knowledgeable about dogs as you. I dont think it would be anyones place to tell her that its a bad idea. One, she will get defensive towards you, and two it will probably just make her want to do it more because you're making it sound like she's not capable. If you want my opinion, print the websites for her, but tell her you're doing it to help her out, not to help her "see the light". But, thats just my opinion.
This is exactly why I'm afraid to say something to her. I don't want to be a "dog snob" (because I have no right to be) or come off like a jerk. She really is a nice person and is intellegent- just not educated in many ways. However, I just don't understand how she can't see that this is a bad idea for so many reasons!
I will print off the sites and give them to her, to "help" but I just feel terrible that there will soon be yet another litter of unwanted puppies in the world.
Also, my husband called this AM to report that the female puppy is already sahowing signs of major aggression (this from the would be "breeder's" mouth). The puppy is food aggressive and bites and growls at the other dogs and people who get too close to her while she's eating. AHHHH.
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It is difficult not to be "harsh" when you see someone throwing away lives. And that is what careless breeding is, creating lives so they can be discarded. Yes, some of the puppies may end up in loving wonderful homes, but how many do you think will end up as bait dogs, fighting dogs, tied up to a tree, or euthanized as viscious? That is reality, and reality is harsh. The only thing that you can do is try and educate people, and if they choose not to listen, walk away. In the same token, if those same people come to me gushing about their "beautiful puppies" or come to me for advise or commiseration because their unsocialized dog just bit someone I tell them "too bad. Guess dog ownership/breeding wasn't all it was cracked up to be." And I still walk away. And that IS harsh.
Stella
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It is difficult not to be "harsh" when you see someone throwing away lives. And that is what careless breeding is, creating lives so they can be discarded. Yes, some of the puppies may end up in loving wonderful homes, but how many do you think will end up as bait dogs, fighting dogs, tied up to a tree, or euthanized as viscious? That is reality, and reality is harsh. The only thing that you can do is try and educate people, and if they choose not to listen, walk away. In the same token, if those same people come to me gushing about their "beautiful puppies" or come to me for advise or commiseration because their unsocialized dog just bit someone I tell them "too bad. Guess dog ownership/breeding wasn't all it was cracked up to be." And I still walk away. And that IS harsh.
Stella
Amen, sister. :)
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I think the best thign to do is relate it all back to finances. Either she cares about her dogs deeply, or she doesn't. If she doesn't, there aren't any appeals to ethics that will work because to her "it's just a dog."
Point out how many pitbulls are up for adoption in rescues and pounds. Geez, that's a lot more supply than demand? Think you'll be able to find paying homes for all the puppies?
Man, vet bills for pregnancies get expensive. What if there's complications? Can you cover all of the expenses if something goes wrong? You'd hate to lose out on your investment.
You should probably take the dog to obedience school. If people come to see your dogs and get a puppy, and they see a rambunxious or aggressive dog, geez, you might lose a sale!
If you can tell that she's going to breed no matter what you say, switch tactics and it's time to start lookign out for those poor pups. Research the laws in your area- in most places it's against the law to sell a dog to be used for fighting. The only way she can "make sure" (because you can't ever be sure) that they don't get used fo rthat purpose (and she doesn't get slapped with a fine, as I'm sure would be her concern) is to do home checks. Tell her it's easier to sell puppies with shots.
Also, be careful with those males- two unneutered males with no temperment testing and one unspayed female is a recipe for complete disaster!
Good luck!
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Yes, that is true...but Id also like to point out that many many people, some on this site, will not have a dog unless it is a registered breed of some kind, so in the same aspect, plenty of lives are being "wasted" because people choose to overlook mixed breeds.
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Mixed breed, purebred, dog, cat, horse or goldfish, the problem would not exisit if careless and BYBs and puppymills did not exist. I personally don't care about my dogs's pedigrees anymore than I care about my next door nieghbor's heritage and lineage. I love my mutt as much as I love my purebreds. But that is just me.
I thank God for the responsible breeders that care enough to keep the breeds pure and strong, and genetically sound. Without them we wouldn't have breeds, and choices of size, disposition and characteristic s.
Stella
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Yes, that is true...but Id also like to point out that many many people, some on this site, will not have a dog unless it is a registered breed of some kind, so in the same aspect, plenty of lives are being "wasted" because people choose to overlook mixed breeds.
This is a point worth discussing. However, the same complaint can be made. GOOD REPUTABLE breeders will not produce too many animals, will not produce poor-quality animals, and will take their animals back if the owner can no longer care for them, which keeps them out of the shelters and off the street.
Also, I know that many on this site have purebreds from rescue, which is adding to the solution, not the problem.
I realize what your point is, but, the issue here was with one woman and her dogs. There really isn't any way to argue that there doesn't need to be more pittbulls in this world. (or any other breed, but this one is particularly problematic, no question)
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You know I have to change what I said before to: you can only tell her what the financial implications will be and give your opinion, but don't push, don't argue. She will do what she wants and someone will hopefully put those pups in good homes some day.
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I have been reading this thread and it seems to me that you can tactfully show her all this information by telling her that you got interested in what it takes to be a good breeder when she told you about breeding her pups. And then tell what you discovered that you didn't know. That way it comes out as you educating yourself and telling her the information like complications with pregnancy and costs and all that stuff. That way you might not hurt her feelings or make her defensive and she might listen. Good luck.
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I will have to agree to disagree
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In my experience if someone is determined to breed they are going to do so no matter what you say. They see $$ and that's all that matters to them. BYB's are a serious peeve of mine. >:(
I'm STILL trying to 'talk' friends out of breeding their male GSD that only has one testicle! I thought I had them agreed into neutering him.. but just yesterday they mentioned a neighbor had bought a female GSD to breed with him. ::) UGH it's like I'm just wasting my breath. :(
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Please give her this link!!!!
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/breeding.cfm
if she wathces nothing else, this she has too...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5fH3k_a64lQ
have her watch this video....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hMBRPdMS9Wc