Big Paws Only Dog Forums
Dobermans => Doberman Discussions => : Shibumi April 13, 2007, 10:43:38 PM
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Hi all- this is our second Dobie, our first nine year old Precious died of cancer earlier this year. It was horrible, like losing family- we all bawled like babies and think of her daily.
This little guy is from the same breeder, at 7 weeks he weighs 18 pounds and LOOK at the size of those paws!! We think he might have gotten the giant Dobie gene somewhere, our vet says he has never seen a 7 week old that big. He is a mess, just chews and plays, eats, poops, and sleeps and sleeps- must be growing during the downtime!
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Awww he is absolutely precious and welcome to BPO! ;D
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Thanks!
I'm really wondering about his size, anyone else had a pup this big at this age?!? ???
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He does look big to me, but also very cute! How many pups were in the litter?
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Welcome! He is very cute. His feet are large yes. I've never seen a HUGE Doberman and I know they aren't supposed to get massive or anything so I'm not sure. I did see one in a pet store not long ago who has HUGE feet..everyone that went by the window commented on his feet. I couldn't believe the size of them. It seems as the rest of their body grows though, they seem to catch up to their feet. In my experience with other dogs at least. Like the others asked, how large were both the parents? That is a generally a good judge of his eventual size.
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Welcome Shibumi and Spartan Leonidas. I just saw 300 and I love that name. I'm Misty and Gracie is my little Big Paw. She's an 11 month old (today) English Mastiff. You will get some really great information here about all sorts of puppy stuff. You can also ask your breeder about the pup's grandparents size as well. That too could be a good indicator. Spartan is adorable and I'm glad you found BPO. Welcome both of you and I can't wait to watch that baby grow.
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He does look big to me, but also very cute! How many pups were in the litter?
Seven- three blacks and 4 reds!
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Welcome to Big Paws Only. I'm Tina, mom to Jack.
I have a special spot in my heart for Dobes. And he is a cutie.
I really don't know much about growth rate, but those paws do look big. Are his parents big?
My young adulthood was spent with Dobes. Our first was petite and the second was massive. Same breeder. My parent's are now on their 4th Dobe, this guy is average size but then #3 was large.
I wonder if a Google search on Doberman growth rate would give you some answers.
His mom is about 80 lbs, breed standard is 65- I haven't seen the dad. Here is a picture of an 8 month old cousin who weighs 80 lbs, they grow until 18 months. In his bloodline is a dog named Lancer who was 130 lbs- I called him Arnold Schwartzendobi e!! :o
I hope he gets that big, they look like a Great Dane in Dobie shape and color!
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He's a very pretty boy.
It sounds to me from your last post that you know where his "giant Dobie genes" came from and got what you were hoping for.
My Rott weighed 25lbs at 8 weeks and ended up 120-125 an adult (solid). I would say your boy will end up well below that.... as he should be.
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what a total cutie! I love him. and great name. Im guessing hes named after the spartan king ;) hahaha.
Congrats on the new baby, but so sad to hear about your old girl. my mom has a red doberman, his name is Coen. named after a character in resident evil Zero (he is a red dobe, they have dobes covered in blood... hahaha im a loser) anyways, welcome aboard> :)
Jo
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Welcome to BPO. I'm mom to 1 big Golden, 2 Pyrs, 3 human kids and our kitties. Thanks for the pics, he is so cute and it does sound like he's going to be a big boy.
I am very sorry for your loss. For me, that is the hardest part of loving our furry babies. They are forever a part of the family and always missed. Congratulation s on your beautiful new puppy.
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Welcome to Big Paws Only. I'm Tina, mom to Jack.
I have a special spot in my heart for Dobes. And he is a cutie.
I really don't know much about growth rate, but those paws do look big. Are his parents big?
My young adulthood was spent with Dobes. Our first was petite and the second was massive. Same breeder. My parent's are now on their 4th Dobe, this guy is average size but then #3 was large.
I wonder if a Google search on Doberman growth rate would give you some answers.
His mom is about 80 lbs, breed standard is 65- I haven't seen the dad. Here is a picture of an 8 month old cousin who weighs 80 lbs, they grow until 18 months. In his bloodline is a dog named Lancer who was 130 lbs- I called him Arnold Schwartzendobi e!! :o
I hope he gets that big, they look like a Great Dane in Dobie shape and color!
Wow, I don't think I'd want a Doberman that exceeded the breed standard to that degree, seeing as they would most likely have a lot of health issues being that size. :-\ I did read somewhere that within the breed standard they can reach 90lbs.
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In the FCI standard they males can go as large as 45kg = 99lbs.
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In the FCI standard they males can go as large as 45kg = 99lbs.
99, ha that is funny..just couldn't make it an even number. I've never seen a big one, I'd like to..or would I. :o lol
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In the FCI standard they males can go as large as 45kg = 99lbs.
99, ha that is funny..just couldn't make it an even number. I've never seen a big one, I'd like to..or would I. :o lol
99.21 to be exact...lol
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In the FCI standard they males can go as large as 45kg = 99lbs.
99, ha that is funny..just couldn't make it an even number. I've never seen a big one, I'd like to..or would I. :o lol
99.21 to be exact...lol
How incredibly silly! ::) I looked on the AKC site but oddly it doesn't mention weight, just height.
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Hi everyone,I'm new here and this is the first thread I read over. Lovely doberman baby! I thought I'd give my thoughts on the size issue....seems from my experience and from talking to breeders of large breeds that parents' size is biggest factor, along with grandparents.
My new puppy is a big guy too. His dam was 110 and sire 140. BUT one of his grandfathers was 170+!! I seriously hope he doesn't get that big! LOL
I am going to attempt to attach an image of him as he is now at nine weeks.
Great site! I have little ones too but I promise not to speak of them!!!
Holly
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Boy, you've got a houseful!!
How much do the Great Pyrenees(sp?) pups weigh?
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Boy, you've got a houseful!!
How much do the Great Pyrenees(sp?) pups weigh?
They are generally 20lbs at 8 weeks, but their sizes can vary a great deal. My female was only 11 but she was very underweight and my male was 15. Someone told me the giant breeds should gain 10lbs a month and that's what they've done since. :)
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Boy, you've got a houseful!!
How much do the Great Pyrenees(sp?) pups weigh?
They are generally 20lbs at 8 weeks, but their sizes can vary a great deal. My female was only 11 but she was very underweight and my male was 15. Someone told me the giant breeds should gain 10lbs a month and that's what they've done since. :)
Wow, Pyrs are awesome dogs!
I've always loved big dogs- anyone else here read all the Albert Payson Terhune dog books growing up? "Thane, the Irish Wolfhound" and all those?
My first dog out on my own was for my first wife, a Pomeranian. Cute at first, then increasingly annoying and irritating-very similar to the wife! :D I wound up with him five years later in the divorce, and he lived to 13 years old.
My Dobie weighed in at 20 lbs yesterday, born 2/20- maybe that 10/month scale works for him as well! His "uncle" is 8 months/80 lbs as well.
I read a lot about overfeeding/underfeeding- wouldn't someone want to err on the side of overfeeding if anything, especially with a dog as athletic and trim as a Dobie? I would thing better to have a few pounds of puppy fat to burn off between 6-12 months than have insufficient nutrients to support proper growth of bone, joints, and muscle...
After all in the wild, ideally an animal eats all it wants while growing up-I would think Nature would get it right on how to handle "excess" nutrition?
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Boy, you've got a houseful!!
How much do the Great Pyrenees(sp?) pups weigh?
They are generally 20lbs at 8 weeks, but their sizes can vary a great deal. My female was only 11 but she was very underweight and my male was 15. Someone told me the giant breeds should gain 10lbs a month and that's what they've done since. :)
Wow, Pyrs are awesome dogs!
I've always loved big dogs- anyone else here read all the Albert Payson Terhune dog books growing up? "Thane, the Irish Wolfhound" and all those?
My first dog out on my own was for my first wife, a Pomeranian. Cute at first, then increasingly annoying and irritating-very similar to the wife! :D I wound up with him five years later in the divorce, and he lived to 13 years old.
My Dobie weighed in at 20 lbs yesterday, born 2/20- maybe that 10/month scale works for him as well! His "uncle" is 8 months/80 lbs as well.
I read a lot about overfeeding/underfeeding- wouldn't someone want to err on the side of overfeeding if anything, especially with a dog as athletic and trim as a Dobie? I would thing better to have a few pounds of puppy fat to burn off between 6-12 months than have insufficient nutrients to support proper growth of bone, joints, and muscle...
After all in the wild, ideally an animal eats all it wants while growing up-I would think Nature would get it right on how to handle "excess" nutrition?
I'm sure someone can answer that question better than I, but as far as I've learned you never want to over feed. A trim or slim dog is generally in better condition as far as joints etc..than a dog with a lot of extra weight. I'm not sure how trim a Dobe would be that got to be of giant size though. Speaking of one within the breed standard yes, but grossly over that? Their frame would then be that of a giant dog and the same would apply- as far as you wanting to maintain a puppy more on the slim side. I've always been cautioned not to overfeed these dogs. They get about 4 cups of a high quality kibble a day, that's eating twice a day. Some dogs will eat and eat and eat and not know when to stop. A dog that eats too much will grow too quickly and wreack havoc on it's bones/joints. I don't know about Dobes, but I know for giants, you want a slow and steady growing pup. You said they grow for 18 mos, that's a lot of growing time, and if only for 18 mos..getting to be over 100 lbs in that short of time would be awfully fast. Most giants grow for 3 yrs.
Most people(not all)seem to agree to put down their food for 15 mins or so and then pick up the bowls, so they will have eaten what they want in that time. Sometimes mine will scarf down the 2 cups in minutes and sometimes just take a little and be done.
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I read a lot about overfeeding/underfeeding- wouldn't someone want to err on the side of overfeeding if anything, especially with a dog as athletic and trim as a Dobie? I would thing better to have a few pounds of puppy fat to burn off between 6-12 months than have insufficient nutrients to support proper growth of bone, joints, and muscle...
After all in the wild, ideally an animal eats all it wants while growing up-I would think Nature would get it right on how to handle "excess" nutrition?
No one would rather side with under feeding. Over feeding large breeds can lead to fast growth which can lead to orthopedic problems.
As far as growing up in the wild goes....Wild dogs/wolves etc... do not eat all the want as they grow. They must first count on the pack to make the kill and the pups eat last. It has been documented that wolves can sometimes go days without meals. Its not like they have a drive thru kill window to go to :)
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:D
"Would you supersize that for me?"
"What do you have in the Happy Meal today?" (ewww...) :o
Nice...
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Sorry i'm a little slow to add to the weight comment but I thought I'd pipe in. My Maggie is about 80 lbs right now, which is over the weight limit for females. She's no way big compared to a Dane or Pyr, infact I think she's quite small when she's around them lol.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/pd62d0947f7b536dff14eccf9d9b5e045/ec830e04.jpg)
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Oh... he is adorable! My Jared was a big guy too... 6 kilos at the age of 7 weeks. I love big dobies!
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Sorry i'm a little slow to add to the weight comment but I thought I'd pipe in. My Maggie is about 80 lbs right now, which is over the weight limit for females. She's no way big compared to a Dane or Pyr, infact I think she's quite small when she's around them lol.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/pd62d0947f7b536dff14eccf9d9b5e045/ec830e04.jpg)
Beautiful girl!
She is a big girl, but beautifully proportioned- trim, tummy tucked up, ribs visible under that shiny coat- in NO way overweight, just 15 lbs and overall size above breed standard. Nothing wrong with that!!
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UPDATE:
Spartan is now 12 weeks old, and weighs 38 pounds!! :o
The vet was just amazed at how big and fit and healthy he looks! We're cropping ears next week, he is going to be just a MAGNIFICENT animal when he grows up!
P.S.- Dear GOD please give him some bladder control!!!
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That is one huge puppy!
I'm not up to date with crops, but why did you wait until after 12 weeks to crop?
Vet recommendation, 12-14 is standard for Dobe's.
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Slow down puppers! hahah. At least he's healthy! And Amen on the bladder control. My guys do really well but when my boy has an accident, you'd think a dam broke lol. Not good at all!!
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AAHHHHHHHHHHHW WWWWWW!!!!!!!! look at them big ole paws!!!! What a cute pupper
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OMG - look at those paws! Spartan could be on his way to breaking a world record in Dobie size....lol
What a flippin' cutie... I love him! :)
Here are a couple pics of my dobie/pit girl, she is currently tipping the scale at 71 pounds.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/bludog1025/BoatingEllieEdit.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/bludog1025/EllieInYard.jpg)
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I agree, we need new pics so umm ..where are they? ;D
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"12-14 is standard for Dobe's"
What's standard for responsible Doberman breeders is to crop them before they ever leave the breeder's home, and it is generally done around the age of 8-9 weeks. Twelve to fourteen weeks is extremely late.
I'd like to suggest for Doberman lovers to please spend some time on this site to learn about buying responsibly
http://members.execulink.com/~korevaar/buyingguide.htm
The fact that this breeder didn't crop and is breeding oversized Dobermans are two big red flags. The last thing you want is for a Doberman to be grossly oversized, leading to more hip, elbow, joint, cardiac problems, etc.
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I am not a fan of cropping as a whole, and being that your boy is so obviously oversized, I wouldn't think you're thinking about the show ring for him, so wouldn't it be a moot point to put him through it? Just like MaryAndDobe's said - 12 weeks is EXTREMELY late for a crop - 7-8 weeks is the norm with 9 or 10 being the absolute latest I've ever seen a vet want to do a crop (and most of the vets I've worked with wouldn't crop).
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Sorry about no pics, my son is in California for two weeks with my digital!
Spartan is now almost 5 months old, and weighs 61 pounds. Just a flippin MOOSE, all paws and jaws!! :D
A 40 lb bag of Nutro Large Breed puppy food lasted three weeks, and there is no "puppy fat" on this kid! My vets are guessing 100+ for him when he's grown, I just wonder how much the "plus" is gonna be!
To answer a few questions, the people we got him from aren't "breeders", they are friends with Dobermans and we have gotten both of ours from them. We got him at 6 weeks. We love Spartan, and don't care if he is "breed standard" or anything else. We cropped his ears because that is what we think a Doberman should look like, and it's our choice in this matter. The procedure was done under sedation, and he was sent home with 10 days supply of pain pills. Women and men do worse things to their bodies every day in the interest of appearance... :D
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Aww he is adorable the pic in your av any way.. HE looks like my Zeus hehehe but Zeus is a rotti hehe So no ear snipped on him lol. BUt he is adorable and will be probley pretty handsome with his ears done. IS his tail docked
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Ugh you post and no pics, What's up with that? ;D :P
Glad to see your back though, I need a puppy fix in about 2 weeks!
Women and men do worse things to their bodies every day in the interest of appearance...
I definitely agree with that. I love the crop/docked look and plan on doing it to my future dobies as well.
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Here he is giving me his best "Kiss my butt" look. :)
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Zeus is quite a handsome lad! My folks have a Rott, and they look like twins next to each other as far as markings!
Yes his tail was docked at 2 days old, way before we ever met him! I love it, Dobies don't wag their tails, they wag their stubby at 100 mph and their whole body wags!! :D
This pic was a month ago and about 15 pounds...
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He's growing growing! He must have much more growing to do if his feet are still that big. Don't Dobermans when grown have like really small feet? :o
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Yes, their feet look small, only the tiptoes touch when they're standing up.
This is crappy quality (phone), but check the 4 1/2 month old out on a standard 7 foot leather couch!!
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He is sure a beut. HE has such long legs..
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Hmm Maggie's feet aren't that small and her pads touch the ground? lol
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I've never seen one in person so I don't know, I was just going on memory from pics and I didn't think they had very large feet when they are grown. But I could be totally wrong. He definitely needs to grow into those some more though! lol
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Hmm Maggie's feet aren't that small and her pads touch the ground? lol
I just cheked Dals's ... his feet are pretty big, but proportional to his body. His whole paw pads touch the ground too. I'm pretty sure Kiz & Kaiser's did as well. :-\
No, no, no- I mean their paws look longer than they are when lying down, their feet are more "neat, bunched" appearance according to AKC when standing up...
Here is his paw at 7 weeks, it flexes at the black markings spot.
And yes, he still has plenty of catching up to the mitts he has NOW...
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We cropped his ears because that is what we think a Doberman should look like, and it's our choice in this matter. The procedure was done under sedation, and he was sent home with 10 days supply of pain pills. Women and men do worse things to their bodies every day in the interest of appearance... :D
Your pup is beautiful! Thanks for posting new photos of him and his giant self spread out on the couch!
However I do have to say that I always find it amusing when people say cropped is what a Dobe "should" look like. Considering they are born with natural ears, isn't that kind of a misnomer? Now, a Basenji with prick ears- that is what one "should" look like.
Also, women and men have the options of choosing what they do to their bodies, puppies do not.
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It's true they don't get to choose, but when it is painless and the vet sends him home with a ten-day supply of doggie Vicodin, it is a moot point don't you think?? ::) If you want to talk about choice, get busy and stop the practice of circumcision- THEY don't use anesthetic!! :o I treat a DOG better than that!
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It's true they don't get to choose, but when it is painless and the vet sends him home with a ten-day supply of doggie Vicodin, it is a moot point don't you think?? ::) If you want to talk about choice, get busy and stop the practice of circumcision- THEY don't use anesthetic!! :o I treat a DOG better than that!
Correct they do not use anesthetic when newborn boys are circumcised just as they don't when they dock tails or remove dewclaws on newborn puppies.
What I do not understand is why people think cropping is so much more painful then the other surgeries we have voluntarily done to our dogs?
The argument that it is done only for the "owners liking' holds true with most voluntary surgeries we have performed...do gs do not have to be neutered. We choose to do so to make our human lives easier and to make dogs fit into our way of society. So before people come down on owners who crop I wish they would think long and hard of the real medical reasons they neutered their dog. Truth is the lines the vets and shelters feed you just do not hold up in the long run but its sure a heck of alot easier to live with a dog who does not try to run the house, hike on your walls, or hump the neighbors kids isn't it.
As far as the pain goes..my Terrier refused to walk for 3 days following his neutering I have yet to see a cropped pup in that much pain.
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Ummm, wrong- my vet anesthetizes for tails and dewclaws. I wouldn't go to him if he didn't, that's just cruel. I've heard the STUPID rationalizatio ns on newborns, baby and puppy alike and it's bull****!! Pinch a newborn and see if it cries- now tell me it won't feel a scalpel?!? >:( >:( Don't let anyone fool you, or themselves- it's absolute cruelty of the vilest sort on a defenseless creature. NO justification.
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I was present when a litter of Springer spaniels had there rear dews removed and tails docked at the clinic I volunteered at. No anesthetic.. I was asked to assist.. and I was cringing at each snip. Yet the pups slept though the entire thing. LOL
I was also present for an ear crop on a Great Dane and he was definitely in pain afterwards even though he was given pain meds before he woke up from the anesthetic.
I do like the cropped 'look' on Danes and Dobies. And I don't fault anyone that chooses to crop. I just personally couldn't do it unless I had to.
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I was present when a litter of Springer spaniels had there rear dews removed and tails docked at the clinic I volunteered at. No anesthetic.. I was asked to assist.. and I was cringing at each snip. Yet the pups slept though the entire thing. LOL
Maybe back dews do not hurt like fronts? Since I have never held a puppy for front dews who did not scream and try to get away. I have never held for backs (many fronts and tails). I wonder if since they are not as attached as the fronts it does not hurt as bad? I know the digging it often takes to remove the front makes my stomache turn and my litters will have them left on.
I do not know of a single vet in my area who uses any type of anesthetic for tails/dews. Many claim for the same reasons it is not used on a human newborn..risk and they claim the local is more painful then the tail docking itself.
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I don't know anything about the removal of dewclaws and cropping and docking, fortunately I have long tailed and floppy eared doggies ;)..and I will also be leaving all their dewclaws in place despite vets that believe in removing them..but I do know that it's common also for newborn baby boys to sleep through or not react to circ's also. I'm sure it has to do with age and pain sensors etc.. Anyway, both of those are extremely heated issues with people.. so I hope this doesn't turn into a debate. I don't think I've ever seen a grown Doberman with natural ears, it seems most people think of them as having the cropped ones when you think of a Doberman, at least I do...not that their natural ears aren't cute too. If it were me I'd probably leave them just because they are born that way, and and it's cute and different. Just seems to be personal preference.
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so I hope this doesn't turn into a debate. I don't think I've ever seen a grown Doberman with natural ears, it seems most people think of them as having the cropped ones when you think of a Doberman, at least I do...not that their natural ears aren't cute too.
I certainly was not looking for a debate was just giving my thoughts on the subject as I thought others where.
I have a floppy eared adult red Dobe sitting in my kitchen right now..I'll take a pic and post it for you.
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so I hope this doesn't turn into a debate. I don't think I've ever seen a grown Doberman with natural ears, it seems most people think of them as having the cropped ones when you think of a Doberman, at least I do...not that their natural ears aren't cute too.
I certainly was not looking for a debate was just giving my thoughts on the subject as I thought others where.
I have a floppy eared adult red Dobe sitting in my kitchen right now..I'll take a pic and post it for you.
Oh, I wasn't referring to anyone in general! It's just that as I was posting I was thinking that I didn't want to start posting on a topic that would become a debate. But that wasn't directed at anyone. :) I'd like to see the pic!
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so I hope this doesn't turn into a debate. I don't think I've ever seen a grown Doberman with natural ears, it seems most people think of them as having the cropped ones when you think of a Doberman, at least I do...not that their natural ears aren't cute too.
I certainly was not looking for a debate was just giving my thoughts on the subject as I thought others where.
I have a floppy eared adult red Dobe sitting in my kitchen right now..I'll take a pic and post it for you.
Oh, I wasn't referring to anyone in general! It's just that as I was posting I was thinking that I didn't want to start posting on a topic that would become a debate. But that wasn't directed at anyone. :) I'd like to see the pic!
Nothing wrong with a bit of debate, as long as it stays respectful and everyone acts like grown-ups! Socrates dug it... :D
Post up the Red! There were three reds in the litter we got ours from, they were beautiful dogs- no color is better than another, just a matter of what you like. Here is one (not a red!) who lived in the house ours came from- she fell for me, after petting her a minute, she backed up to me, sat on my feet, and leaned back on me for a good petting session... :D
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It's true they don't get to choose, but when it is painless and the vet sends him home with a ten-day supply of doggie Vicodin, it is a moot point don't you think?? ::) If you want to talk about choice, get busy and stop the practice of circumcision- THEY don't use anesthetic!! :o I treat a DOG better than that!
Correct they do not use anesthetic when newborn boys are circumcised
no they dont put the baby under to do the circumcision, but they do inject 2 shots on either side that numb the whole area.