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Blog Discussion Forum => Blog Feedback & Discussion Board => : KJUNMAMI May 17, 2007, 12:58:48 AM

: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 17, 2007, 12:58:48 AM
 ;DI noticed there wasn't any forums about APBTs and other bully breeds. Please come and share stories or if you have questions! Hope to hear from you soon!  :D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 17, 2007, 08:21:04 AM
Has anyone who owned a pitbull had someone pet their dog and then when you say its a pit then shy away?
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: schelmischekitty May 17, 2007, 09:00:48 AM
caine is very very very noticeable a pb, so people simply shy away.  but, we have had people pull kids away from us at the sight of him.  regardless of the fact he LOVESSSSSSSSSS kids.  we don't even get a chance.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Brownis15 May 17, 2007, 09:19:27 AM
see I deal with the same thing with Atlas already!! He is only 14 weeks old and people steer clear on the street. Its unfair. P.B's are even worse!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 17, 2007, 09:35:33 AM
lol, people do the same thing with our pups already..it's pretty funny. I have to admit if I see a pitbull I'm gonna go the other way too, it's not like I'm gonna run up to pet or hug it. :o Too many bad stories and bad people raising scary ones.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Brownis15 May 17, 2007, 09:50:28 AM
well they are also the most POPULAR breeds in america, so of course more are going to be aggressive, because they arent being raised right. The more there are, the more problems there are.  ::) It sucks because those stats ruin it for all the good owners who have sweet loving dogs.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 17, 2007, 09:54:24 AM
True, but it seems there are breeds 'prone' to certain tendencies and take a firmer type of training than others. I don't know the person walking the pitbull or one that is running loose has been raised properly, do I? I've known only 1 personally in my life and she was a sweetheart indeed but she belonged to a friend of mine and I knew her history etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to run up and love on any stray dog, regardless of the breed but I'm not gonna lie and say I'm not more cautious around some. There are some breeds you don't hear all the horror stories about and I do believe theres a reason behind it. It's not the dogs fault of course, but the irresponsible people who raise them for inappropriate things. Some dogs are more prone to go after someone and some are prone to handle it differently, that's all. A lot of people pick certain breeds for certain reasons, I know I did, and what I soley based my decision on.

I'm not against all pitbulls, but I don't think their reputation will ever be a good one to be honest. It's against the law to even own them some places. But I do realize any dog can be bred wrong and raised wrong,  I'm not being ignorant. Hubby was attacked by a lab mix when he was a kid and never liked dogs after that. Thankfully he loves ours.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 17, 2007, 10:05:37 AM
We were looking very much into getting an American Bulldog before I decided on these. Hubby has always wanted one and I did a ton of research into them, but decided at the last minute, it just really wasn't the dog for our family, something didn't feel 100% right about it. Nothing to do with anything behavorial. Hubby still loves them and wants one someday I know. But we both agree we got lucky with the pups I chose (in that they fit the breed standard and what I wanted in a dog), and we really couldn't ask for better dogs. To each his own right?  :)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 17, 2007, 07:52:37 PM
Well for the record, I never stated I had a problem with 'Bully breeds', I actually said we were considering getting one, the bullier looking, the better ...and I still like them. I've never been weary of other dogs like that, I think a lot of people (certain individuals) have them because they look intimidating when really they are big sweethearts. I know every single one hubby has met (and has met several!) were just big teddy bears with a scary bark haha.

Again, I'm not talking about responsible pet ownership here! I'm talking about the people that get or breed a dog for the wrong reasons! ANY dog bred improperly with the wrong tendencies can have puppies with problems, agressions, etc.. Some breeds are extrememly overbred, and you can't deny the Pits reputaion is out there because of the people that wanted to train them to be mean and to fight, and those people are still out there. I don't feel I have a prejudice whatsoever, and if that was referring to me, I can only assume because I don't know why other people don't like them exactly, it's offensive. I feel my opinions are logic based, but you can think whatever you want. I already stated as clear as day why I think they've got the reputation and why I wouldn't trust just any Pit or any dog.

Why don't most of you own little dogs? You hate them? Hopefully not. Well, I do know people that hate little dogs and ones that hate big dogs and they all have their reasons. I'm not a hater of any dog or cat or other animal. But it doesn't mean I would choose just any animal for my family either, and I don't see what's wrong with that. More power to you guys that love this breed, or that love GSD's or that love Goldens or Poodles, I have favorite breeds too, just so happens this isn't one of them. (the APBT)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 17, 2007, 08:05:48 PM
 Would you guys agree that not just any breed would be suitable for the novice dog owner? Unless everything I read is inaccurate, that would certainly seem to be the case and also makes sense in my head as to the reason why. I don't think a Pitbull is for just anyone. Same as I don't think a Great Dane is, and the list could on and on. One reason I chose against the Bulldog was because I didn't feel like I could take on the type of training they would need to make an excellent family member with the proper temperment etc. So instead of getting one just because we wanted one, I made the responsible choice I felt. Each dog is as individual as people I do agree, but if the dog is bred decently, it will maintain the tendencies/behavoirs/temperment etc of it's breed standard, will it not? I know I can only choose a dog based on that.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Lyn May 17, 2007, 10:04:48 PM
I love the bully breeds. Expecially English Bulldogs and Bullmastiffs. Ann, One of these days I must meet Phelan. ;D

I will admit though that I am a little wary of Pitbulls. I was very close to being bitten on the face by a friends Pit. He just jumped up on the couch beside me, sat down and lunged at my face. Luckily I heard him let out a low growl beforehand or he would have connected. :( Now mind you this was a rescue with unknown history. I don't blame the breed but whenever I meet one that hesitation is still there for me whether I like it or not. :( But do I want them all destroyed? h*ll no! It's the byb's and ignorant owners that I'd like to take out my frustration on.

I do agree that Pits are not for everyone, just like Saint, Danes, Pyrs, Newfs etc.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: 2Criminals May 17, 2007, 11:41:50 PM
You can meet him whenever you want ;)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:28:54 AM
Isn't it sad. My fiancees mothers neighbors kids played with her the first time they saw ours but then when THEIR dog tried to attack our PB they saw it and nw the kids just stare as they walk by. :'( My dog didn't even do anything thing when their little whatever it is came up off the leash and jumped in my dogs face!! >:( What makes it so sad for me is that our pup always wants to pull and see every person she sees and they won't come near her! :'(
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:32:13 AM
you just have to read the signs and always ask if their dog is friendly and if you may pet it. Noone will let you walk up to a potentially dangerous dog and touch it! most pitbulls love people!! ive never met one that doesn't actually!! :D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:36:18 AM
THANK YOU!!!!! you are soo right and it makes me soo happy when i hear people talking some sense!! ;D who knows next year it may be pointers or huskies, ??? then will those breed lovers realize??? :-\ keep fightimg the good fight!!! Say no to bsl... i love apbts! ::)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:41:48 AM
you should really research the breed. the media has wont put up anything good concerning a pitbull. there are so many stories where they are search and rescue, or they saved their families and even other people and pets from death. the number one drug sniffing dog in america is a pit. do you know the media has even told people who their pit saved their lives that they wouldnt publish the story saying it was a pit? tell me how is it they can be soo prejudice. please im not trying to say all pits are safe but at least educate yourself before making your decisions against them!!  :)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:43:17 AM
AMEN!!!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 12:45:27 AM
Very true and hopefully one that was dangerous would give some kind of warning sign before you got close enough to pet it, but I don't know.  When hubby was walking Yukon the other night a little girl ran up to him and thew her arms around him hugging him, her parents apparently looked quite concerned but quickly realized he was harmless and just enjoying the love. :)

The only Pitbull I've seen in years was at the SPCA last time I took the pups in for their shots. It was a female and the lady said she was just a baby but she didn't resemble one that was too young. She wasn't large by any means but she was WIRED, like her front feet never touched the ground that's how crazy she was and choking herself the entire time. The old man with her kept hitting her with his cane telling her to behave and settle down. The lady that had ahold of the leash would not let her get anywhere near another dog or person. She said about a thousand times that she just wanted to play and doesn't realize her size and would 'hurt our puppies'. Meanwhile Yukon was much larger than her. I had to wonder if she just didn't trust the dog, just not sure...it was kinda strange.

Then I go home and read up on them a little and how they tend to be animal agressive when they aren't raised properly and will go for the throat of a dog...that is terrifying! Like how would the other dog even stand a chance? They are all jaws. :-\
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:46:20 AM
AMEN!!! ;D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:47:20 AM
no dog is good for everyone, but all we are saying is please dont be prejudice to a certain breed from hear say.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:48:02 AM
What a beauty!!!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 12:51:13 AM
This is just purely an honest question. Do you truly think there are just as many say, Golden Retriever attacks as there are Pitbull attacks and the media just never finds out or hides it from the public? Or do they just happen to be Pitbulls a lot of the time and people's fears of them grow worse thereby continuing to tarnish their reputation?

: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:54:27 AM
Everybody is entitled to liking one breed more than another. us pit and other bully breed owners are so tired of people crossing the street because it saddens us to see our dogs face lighten up with joy thinking they are going to get attention and the people hurriedly walk away as if our dogs have leprocy. of course the whole problem started because of irresponsible owners and cruel people but really its just ignorance by those people who cross the street. I just hope one day that we are able to open peoples eyes. im not mad at you at all, just saddened. Please fight the good fight it could be your breed next! Fight BSL!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:56:16 AM
I bet my pitty and your bully would have a blast together. :)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 18, 2007, 12:59:31 AM
there are like 20 breeds that are mistaken for pitbulls all the time. not saying that they are never pittys. ive even read how people have calle dthe news station and asked what kind of dog it was and they said they didn't know, but they said on the news a pit. i mean think about it the media puts out what people want to hear so they can get ratings. nobody cares about a labrador who bites but you hear pit and everyones like OMG!!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 01:05:22 AM
Good, I'm not trying to make anyone mad I'm just trying to explain logically why I have the opinion I do. But it's nothing to be sad about either! I'm really open minded and have changed a lot of my thinking in recent years, and some of my feelings stem from having children. If I see any large or intimidating looking dog running my way, I'm gonna scoop up my babies, no two ways about it. Whether it be a Pitbull or any other big dog, and I'm not gonna apologize for making the dog or the owner feel bad, I'm just going to make sure my kids are okay first- before I know anything about the dog. And now having made the decision to bring 2 pups into our home that are going to grow to be very large dogs one day, I understand the same reaction we will get from other people, but I understand it.

People don't generally come up wanting to pet our dogs now when we walk them, they stay in their driveway just saying hi from a distance, as when we had our american eskimo people went out of their way to come down and pet her. I don't even have dogs that people recognize and know what they are. It just is what it is, and honestly doesn't bother me.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 01:16:02 AM

 I personally think that many pyrs, with their guardian breeding and large size, can be more prone to attacking than a lot of other dogs. But that doesn't make me think they are all vicious.



Wow, really? Hmmmm. From what I know, Pyr attacks are a very rare occurence. But I see what you're saying. I think or hope physical agression would be their last means of defense, at least it's supposed to be, barking being the first.  But I'm sure it's totally possible for them to hurt someone that comes where they should not, then I can't blame the dog- any dog that's only doing it's job. I know when I met my pups parents they scared me, quite an intimidating presence through a fence.  She told me if she wasn't there with me and I tried to come in there, they would have taken my arm off, and I have no doubts about that.

Anyway, yeah I understand that statment.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 01:24:26 AM
The difference here is I'm not asking you guys to have something against Pitbulls. I'm merely stating my opinion and asking questions and getting slammed for it. Guess this isn't the place to do that.
Agreeing to disagree is awesome, the world would be a boring place if we all agreed. ;)

Once again, I know any dog can attack, I'm really not ignorant nor stupid.

That story on the Pyr attack was really weird and it was never even proven they were involved. I'll have to read the rest of the links.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 01:41:40 AM
mama23+pyrs2, I think we have been trying to answer your questions.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but this is a pretty hot button issue, so you are also going to hear some opinions that clash with yours.  I think this has been a very civilized discussion, and we encourage that on the forum.

I don't mind opinions that clash with mine, that is what this world is about. I accept them. I don't see my opinion anywhere near accepted but being bashed and told I am ignorant and prejudice. It's easy to sit on the other side of the fence when people agree with you, very easy.

If an effort was being made to educate me rather than criticize me, I do appreciate the effort. Maybe I missed it, I'm working with pg brain over here.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: People Whisperer May 18, 2007, 01:55:55 AM

 I personally think that many pyrs, with their guardian breeding and large size, can be more prone to attacking than a lot of other dogs. But that doesn't make me think they are all vicious.



Wow, really? Hmmmm. From what I know, Pyr attacks are a very rare occurence. But I see what you're saying. I think or hope physical agression would be their last means of defense, at least it's supposed to be, barking being the first.  But I'm sure it's totally possible for them to hurt someone that comes where they should not, then I can't blame the dog- any dog that's only doing it's job. I know when I met my pups parents they scared me, quite an intimidating presence through a fence.  She told me if she wasn't there with me and I tried to come in there, they would have taken my arm off, and I have no doubts about that.

Anyway, yeah I understand that statment.

I have to disagree about Pyrs being prone to attack people. There is a huge difference in the breed purpose. Pyrs are to protect the flock, Pitbulls are to guard the property and people. Pyrs are barkers and not attackers. Anyone can enter the house with Pyr in it and do not suffer an injury. Now, try doing it with Pitbull in it! Pitbulls are wonderful companions and great guard dogs. They will go for the throat! "Truly quality companions for quality owners only!"
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 02:13:34 AM

 I personally think that many pyrs, with their guardian breeding and large size, can be more prone to attacking than a lot of other dogs. But that doesn't make me think they are all vicious.



Wow, really? Hmmmm. From what I know, Pyr attacks are a very rare occurence. But I see what you're saying. I think or hope physical agression would be their last means of defense, at least it's supposed to be, barking being the first.  But I'm sure it's totally possible for them to hurt someone that comes where they should not, then I can't blame the dog- any dog that's only doing it's job. I know when I met my pups parents they scared me, quite an intimidating presence through a fence.  She told me if she wasn't there with me and I tried to come in there, they would have taken my arm off, and I have no doubts about that.

Anyway, yeah I understand that statment.

I have to disagree about Pyrs being prone to attack people. There is a huge difference in the breed purpose. Pyrs are to protect the flock, Pitbulls are to guard the property and people. Pyrs are barkers and not attackers. Anyone can enter the house with Pyr in it and do not suffer an injury. Now, try doing it with Pitbull in it! Pitbulls are wonderful companions and great guard dogs. They will go for the throat! "Truly quality companions for quality owners only!"

I really did phrase that wrong...LOL.  Guys, I have a pyr, too, and LOVE them but I do recognize that Chammie would protect her flock and her territory...ju st as a pit would. Maybe not in the same manner...but I am sure that both would be protective.  My whole point was that all dogs can attack.  So when we point fingers at pits, let's just for the sake of arguement point them back at our own breeds.   All dogs could be considered vicious and, frankly, large/meaty working, guarding dogs have historically been the dogs perceived as "vicious".  Take a look at dobies, rotties (draft work and herding doesn't seem to vicious to me), etc.   Who's to say that pyrs, great danes, etc are next? What I'm trying to do is make this issue come home to those of us who don't have pits.

Our breeds can be affected by terrible people breeding and training for more "viciousness".  They are big, they are powerful and they have innate guarding tendencies.  Then, when they were perceived as "bad", we'd have BSL and perception problems.  I'll tell you one thing, Chammie barking her fool head off and body slamming against the fence is way more intimidating that the really well behaved GSDs across the street. LOL.

I just think this issue is so much deeper than pits. I really do.


lol, yeah that is what spooked me about my pups parents. They definitely have a way of letting you know to stay away without being agressive. I had also never been around a huge dog in my life, nothing bigger than our 110 lb Golden who was quite big for a Golden but paled in comparison to these 3 Pyrs.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: morph's mom May 18, 2007, 02:29:49 AM
I have just been sitting back and watching this post. At dog beach in San diego AJ was attacked twice by two different PBT.  All I knew about the breed was things that I had heard from the news and I will admitt that I was ignorant of the breed.  After the attacks (AJ wasnt really hurt, thank god for all his hair) it just reinforced my opinons of them.  I truely became terrified of them, if there was one at a dog park I would leave and go to another one till I found one with no PBT's.  We were at Balboa dog park about three months after the incident with AJ and a PBT came in while we were in the park.  I was trying to hook Morph and AJ's leashes when Morph pulled away from me and headed straight for her.  I took AJ over with me to get Morph so that we could leave and he started playing with her too.  It was like he was a puppy again, I had never seen anything like it.  Come to find out... Sandy was the sweetest dog in the world.  Her mom and I became friends and we spend almost every evening at the park talking while the kids played.  She even took me to a PBT meet and greet where I soon realized that they are not "Bad" dogs at all.  I love them now.  I dont think that they are the right breed for my family but they are for some.  I no longer shy away from them but I dont go running up to them either.  I am respectful of them and thier space just as I expect people to be with Morph.  I can not tell you how many people have asked me... "Is he friendly?"  To which I answer yes as long as you are calm and respectful.  I am very selective on the people that I allow to pet him because his parents had MAJOR aggression issues and I belive that he is genetically predetermined to have them also.  We have worked many many tireless hours on socalization and behavior modification to prevent him from growing up like his parents.  IMHO nurture can beat nature... with a lot of time and dedication.

I do honestly believe that the media does control a lot of our opinions on things.  And PBT's are one of them.  Here is an example of 2 media reports from 2 different news papers on the exact same story.  What do you think about the differences?

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2006/March06/Canadianlabmixattackpart2.htm

here is the second report

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2006/March06/mixedbreedlabs.pdf
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Gevaudan_Jo May 18, 2007, 02:39:03 AM
As a bullie owner, i really wish i'd have seen this before it got so deep. hahaha.
People will come up to me when i have zero, and ask "what kind of dog", when i answer "bull terrier" They back away. as if i said "pitbull terrier" i always then tell them "bull terriers are  not part of the breed ban, they are not pit bulls" they get more comfortable. But now with Jigsaw, my white girl, they all know what she is... how weird? U know, i do love pitbulls, and i woudl definately own one, if there wasnt a breed ban. they are great dogs and deserve great homes. but i agree with everything, they SHOULD be approached with caution while on the street esp. if you dont know who's dog it is.

OH and one more thing, this was one of the stories in that big list of dog bites... this one was in my home town, actually the street down from me...
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/September2005/DogoSept05.pdf
and what they DONT say is this...
the two Dogos were actually a breeding pair, this owner had paid ALOT of money in order to have these dogs and breed them, etc. the female was pregnant... the small dog who was mauled WAS NOT LEASHED, and ran to these dogs and jumped ALL OVER the pregnant female. the male DID NOT touch the dog...   so, the owner HAD to put these gorgeous dogs down, both... WHY? i dont understand. its so sad.
Oh, and one more thing... i was reading those stories that were posted, basically, i clicked the ones that read "Bull terrier"  but im pretty tired of BULL TERRIERS being to blame for STAFF. BULL TERRIER attacks. like, come on. be more specific...  ::) people are just stupid. they can't shorten a name like that for news papers, etc. imo
Jo
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole May 18, 2007, 02:47:38 AM
ooooh, boy!

This is REALLY a heated topic. In my opinion...if you are afraid of a particular type of dog, you probably SHOULD avoid it. YOu are going to put of "I'm scared of you!" vibes, and the dog is going to pick up on that. I think that being afraid of a dog is the best way to get bitten by one. (Wait, did someone already say that?)

Anyway, as far as Pitties. They are pretty much one of my favorite dogs. They're the sweetest, most loving, loyal, athletic, entertaining, clowinish, dork-head dogs I've ever met. Don't get me wrong. I love the big drooly Newfs and stuff. But, when I want to go running or swimming or hiking, you cannot beat the stamina of a pitty! They're GREAT! My pitty X Bo was the best babysitter to my young nephew. He protected my daughter on walks. He ruled. He was euthanized because someone claimed that he bit her (he jumped up on her...long story) and I'm sure that they wouldn't have euthanized him if he'd been another breed.

There's definitely prejudice out there. We HAVE to acknowledge it or we won't get very far. Those of us that love these dogs ARE sensitive, and we jump at the chance to dispel myths. Kristina, one of your first comments was that you would run the other way if you saw a pitty and another one was that they are "all jaws". These are the comments that get us pitty lovers' panties in a bundle, and I'm sure that you are feeling people's responses to those comments.

I don't have to tell you that all dogs bite. You know that. You know, it is funny that the Pyr comparison was made. I've ALWAYS thought of Pyrs as aggressive dogs. My whole life. Well, not aggressive, but just not to be trusted because of their jobs. They are really bred to be more of a guard dog than a pitty. Pitties were companions and hunting dogs. Not guard dogs. (in the beginning) More like...a beagle or a bloodhound. I guess. Anyway...just goes to show you that perception is truly everything.

: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Moni May 18, 2007, 03:23:47 AM
It wasn't until recently that Pit Bulls were bred for guarding anything.  They were bred for dog fighting and back when it was legal and a "gentleman's sport" you would not see a pit with people aggression.   :o  These dogs needed to be pulled off the other dog, usually while badly injured themselves, and be trusted not to turn on their handlers or one of the spectators.  If a dog showed any aggression towards people, it was usually put down quickly.  (I am NOT condoning dog fighting btw!!!)

Unfortunately for the breed, dog fights became illegal and went underground.  Nowadays people who dog fight are most often involved in other illegal activities too(like drugs & weapons, etc) and started to breed the aggression INTO the dogs.  They want a powerful dog that can be in the pit and also guard their possessions.  Then more people see this powerful dog and want to feel macho and intimidating, so they breed for meaner and meaner dogs.  So they start breeding aggression into the dogs.  They did it with GSDs, Dobies, Rotties and now the breed of choice are the Pitty types, though it seems to be starting to fade a little since they are getting banned everywhere.

But what is this banning doing in return?  Its just causing these people to look for a new breed to ruin.  I'm seeing an increase in Neos, DDBs and Cane Corsos turning up in city shelters, same with Danes.  Its scary, especially since these dogs are a lot larger than an average pit and will be able to do the same or even more damage if they attack someone.

Yes there are still many, many great pitties out there, but now thanks to these people, there are aggressive ones too.  Its happening with many breeds, so much that I don't like my kids around any dogs that I don't know. 

Stupid irresponsible owners... 
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 03:54:29 AM
ooooh, boy!

This is REALLY a heated topic. In my opinion...if you are afraid of a particular type of dog, you probably SHOULD avoid it. YOu are going to put of "I'm scared of you!" vibes, and the dog is going to pick up on that. I think that being afraid of a dog is the best way to get bitten by one. (Wait, did someone already say that?)

Anyway, as far as Pitties. They are pretty much one of my favorite dogs. They're the sweetest, most loving, loyal, athletic, entertaining, clowinish, dork-head dogs I've ever met. Don't get me wrong. I love the big drooly Newfs and stuff. But, when I want to go running or swimming or hiking, you cannot beat the stamina of a pitty! They're GREAT! My pitty X Bo was the best babysitter to my young nephew. He protected my daughter on walks. He ruled. He was euthanized because someone claimed that he bit her (he jumped up on her...long story) and I'm sure that they wouldn't have euthanized him if he'd been another breed.

There's definitely prejudice out there. We HAVE to acknowledge it or we won't get very far. Those of us that love these dogs ARE sensitive, and we jump at the chance to dispel myths. Kristina, one of your first comments was that you would run the other way if you saw a pitty and another one was that they are "all jaws". These are the comments that get us pitty lovers' panties in a bundle, and I'm sure that you are feeling people's responses to those comments.

I don't have to tell you that all dogs bite. You know that. You know, it is funny that the Pyr comparison was made. I've ALWAYS thought of Pyrs as aggressive dogs. My whole life. Well, not aggressive, but just not to be trusted because of their jobs. They are really bred to be more of a guard dog than a pitty. Pitties were companions and hunting dogs. Not guard dogs. (in the beginning) More like...a beagle or a bloodhound. I guess. Anyway...just goes to show you that perception is truly everything.



First of all, I never said I would run from a pitbull. I said I wouldn't run up to any stray dog and pet it, and I also said if I saw a large or intimidating dog running for me, I would pick my kids up. I don't ever recall saying I'd run from a Pitbull because I never would run from any dog, I think that's the last thing you should ever do if you feel threatened by a dog.

The jaws comment is the truth and taken out of context makes it sound bad. I was saying how scary it would be if one attacked my dog since I've read they go for their throats and their jaws are obviously massive.. not all dogs are agressive like that nor fight that way. I don't know how my dog would stand a chance if a fiesty little muscular dog bred to fight went straight for his throat. It just got me thinking is all, that it would be scary.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone at all or anyone's dog. I merely was making statments I believe to be true and people got offended. I didn't get offended at the Pyr comments eventhough I've never heard or read about Pyr attacks, if I had, I would have thought a lot harder about getting one let alone two. Of course knowing there is no guarantees on any dog, I chose one firstly that would be excellent with my kids. It's my understanding that Pyrs BARK, they bark and they posture and they give plenty of warning to chase away predators, they don't run after them and attack them, but they patrol and bark to protect their property and make a loud statment that they are there. I've never read a thing about them being people aggressive, only the opposite. Dogs protect in different ways, some hold them at bay, some pin them down, some attack. That's what I know.

I just think I'm spinning my wheels here. Sorry if I offended anyone out there, that was NOT my intention, nor did I ever think I did that with what I wrote, but if I did so unknowingly, I do apologize.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: kathryn May 18, 2007, 04:15:54 AM
I've been reading this thread because it's really interesting.  I don't think it's been heated at all.  It's an emotional issue that's all.  I've never owned a bully breed other than a boston terrier.  According to the dangerous dog breed lists that I have seen Malinois listed on them.  I have also seen lists of proposed BSLs that would effect my breed.  Why, because they are used in protection sports and by police.  I have people run up at my dogs all the time to say hi even when I tell them to ignore the dogs because they don't like that.  My dogs need to be the ones to approach a person first.  A lot of people don't get that especially children.  I had to stop my neighbor's children from running up at my dog to pet it.  Who's fault would it have been if the child hadn't listened to me and had gotten injured?  It would have been my fault and my dog's. 

I have to disagree with the part that only bully breeds go for the throat.  In my experience all dogs will go for the throat or the belly in a fight.  Those are the two most vulnerable parts on any dogs body. 

I completely agree that not every breed is right for every household.  For me, I don't think that a Great Dane is the right dog for me.  I love the way they look and I love them but they seem really dainty to me.  It's probably because I have "in your face" extremely high energy guys.  I have owned a Rottie/GSD boy and there is nothing like the love and devotion that a Rottie can give to you.  At some point I will have another Rottie in my house but I will always have a Malinois also. 

Definitely everyone has to be careful about BSL because it really does effect us all even if you don't own a pit bull. 
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 04:45:39 AM
I have to admit if I see a pitbull I'm gonna go the other way too, it's not like I'm gonna run up to pet or hug it. :o Too many bad stories and bad people raising scary ones.


I think this is the quote they are referring to.

I guess that's the first comment that started this whole thing, there it's my fault. I'm the horrible dog hater on the board now.

Again I think I explained it all tooooooooooooo oooo many times in the posts that followed where exactly I stood on the matter. Not running from the dog and why I felt I wouldn't want to go up to it. But if anyone wants to convince themselves I'm terrible and prejudice against the best dogs in the world- Pittbulls, go right ahead. I've only been spending my time trying to make people understand where I'm coming from when I don't have to, and I'm also the only one that offered an apology for any possible hurt feelings. Maybe we all can move on now.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: People Whisperer May 18, 2007, 04:51:01 AM
I have to admit if I see a pitbull I'm gonna go the other way too, it's not like I'm gonna run up to pet or hug it. :o Too many bad stories and bad people raising scary ones.


I think this is the quote they are referring to.

I guess that's the first comment that started this whole thing, there it's my fault. I'm the horrible dog hater on the board now.

Again I think I explained it all tooooooooooooo oooo many times in the posts that followed where exactly I stood on the matter. Not running from the dog and why I felt I wouldn't want to go up to it. But if anyone wants to convince themselves I'm terrible and prejudice against the best dogs in the world- Pittbulls, go right ahead. I've only been spending my time trying to make people understand where I'm coming from when I don't have to, and I'm also the only one that offered an apology for any possible hurt feelings. Maybe we all can move on now.
Kristina is a dog hater... Kristina is a dog hater, LOL
Let's move on!!!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: People Whisperer May 18, 2007, 04:58:46 AM

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not trying to sound like Pollyanna but I think we're all sort of saying similar things and digging a great big hole around us.

[/quote]
Now you are talking like a Pyr! hee-hee
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 05:29:41 AM
The great thing about having different breeds is that each person can choose a different breed with qualities that suit them best...I usually end up with mutts since they are unique, wacky and you just never know what you're gonna get!   ;)

I can honestly say that there are breeds out there that don't suit me one bit...I'm just not into them.  The girls at the meet and greet in Atlanta will tell you that I got out of control excited when fluffy dogs came into the dog park.  I just like fluffy dogs!  My sister, well, she wants none of that... She loves her smooth hound mix and adores great danes (I love them, but, dang it!, I need some fluff!).    And I prefer herding breeds...I just love 'em.  I got lucky finding a great pyr/border collie mix.  She makes me feel safe like a pyr can do, she keeps me on my toes like a BC can and she's fluffy and silly BUT she is the devil.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not trying to sound like Pollyanna but I think we're all sort of saying similar things and digging a great big hole around us.

Kristina, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Not one bit.  We're all entitled to opinions and the world would be a pretty lame place without different views. JMHO.

Thank you. Funny I never wanted a fluffy dog (cause of the work!)and the ONLY one issue with the Pyrs I had was all the hair. Before I found them, I swore off long haired dogs. I'm still jealous of all you w/short haired dogs that is practically no maintenance and doesn't drag in the whole backyard. BUT, I had to look past the hair because I just had to have one. Today I was hugging them, yes I was can you believe it?! they still even smell good, and anyway that wicked fur sure does make them cuddly! :D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Moni May 18, 2007, 05:34:33 AM
Hahaha, that is funny Kristina!  I'm the opposite about Tenchi.  My only issue with Danes is that they have short hair! ;)  Those little hairs weedle into everything, like cat hair!  Give me tumbleweeds any day.  lol
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Brownis15 May 18, 2007, 08:23:22 AM
I have had an entire year with lots of pitbulls at the H.S. and only noticed one major difference between them and other dogs. They went kennel crazy a lot faster. They began cage fighting only a couple of days after being there. Not ALL of them, but many of them. But in temp testing, with PEOPLE they did amazing. I have been bitten by more labs and huskies than I can count, and heelers.

As an owner of a GSD, I understand the frustration, PB owners face. It is tough when you see people drag their kids to the side so Atlas can walk by... it's not fair. I have a book, which is really helpful, full of dog stats, it is called "fatal dog attacks" and it lists in detail every dog attack that has been fatal in the past 20 years. ALL of the ones I have read have been the owners fault, not the dog. One GSD killed a baby after the owner admittingly didnt feed it for 5 days, then she left her baby and dog home alone while she went shopping!! She came home and the baby was dead. HELLO!!!??? And this stat is put on websites and places without the slightest hint of what REALLY happened.

I personally LIKE owning a dog that people steer clear from, it not only gives me a chance to educate people and break the stereotype, but when needed, Atlas will protect my husband, and scare off people wanting to hurt him.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Brownis15 May 18, 2007, 08:26:40 AM
I should also mention that the pits reputation has been positive in some aspects. Many K-9 schools train them for protection work now, because they have the same effect a GSD/Mal/Dob/Rottie do, a cop walks in with a pit or one of the others at his side, people are going to listen, and not try any funny business. From what I have heard, they excell in it. And also, every pit I have had in my dog aggression classes has been rehabilitated much faster than other breeds. They are so willing to please.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 08:49:15 AM
I should also mention that the pits reputation has been positive in some aspects. Many K-9 schools train them for protection work now, because they have the same effect a GSD/Mal/Dob/Rottie do, a cop walks in with a pit or one of the others at his side, people are going to listen, and not try any funny business. From what I have heard, they excell in it. And also, every pit I have had in my dog aggression classes has been rehabilitated much faster than other breeds. They are so willing to please.

That is good to hear. What a horrible story about the GSD and baby, good God that is just sick. When we were little my Grandma had a GSD, Sugar- and oh how she loved her. She had a few moments with some of the kids that were a bit negative and she was food aggressive I remember, we weren't ever to go around her bowl, but for the most part she was a great dog. I know I was never afraid of her as a young child, I loved her. My mom also had one when we were just babies, it could have been a mix I don't remember but the pics of him were gorgeous and he used to watch and guard us when we were outside or anything she said. I've seen pics of him 'babysitting' us. He was a great dog too. GSD's are another breed we considered getting. We went through several on the list before we (or I really haha) settled on the Pyrs. There are so many I am interested in.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: horsepoor21 May 18, 2007, 11:55:02 AM
It's been my experience , with a rottie (actually , two ) raised by different family members , and some other dogs at the vet clinic I used to work at , that rotties and some other bully breeds are more apt to "turn" on their owners . Well ,actually the one rottie turned on my son instead of his own family , but anyways .... Okay , I just can't seem to find the right words for this . What I'm trying to say is , yes , all breeds bite , but what about the breeds that "turn" for no reason at all ? Like my sister in law's rottie that came from awesome breeders , was raised in a wonderful family , had wonderful training and then one day just attacked my son ? What about my brother in law's rottie that turned on him ? What about the other dogs I witnessed at the clinic doing the same thing ? Are these breeds more apt to do that ? I've never heard of a Newfie turning on their owner ,but then again , is it the media not mentioning it ? I'm just too scared to be around bully breeds as I'm so afraid one will turn on my kids .
This is not meant to offend anyone . It's just that I've SEEN it happen , to my little baby , and I'll never be able to trust a rottie again . No matter how sweet and loving it is .But actually , after my son was attacked ,I was ready to never own a dog again . But that obviously changed . LOL  ::)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: horsepoor21 May 18, 2007, 12:37:55 PM
That is what I always believed too until I saw it happen . We had been around this dog and loved him to death for almost 5 years . I KNOW he was bred properly ,I KNOW he was trained properly , he was checked out by a good vet and no physical reasons were found that would contribute to his behavior . He was raised with 4 kids , he and my son had been around eachother for over a year . We visited them often . Then one day , we were all standing around by the barn talking , my son was playing in the dirt at our feet with his back to the dog , and out of nowhere the dog lunged at him and grabbed him around the back of his neck . It took two men to beat him off of my son .
He just turned . There was absolutely no other reason . It still totally blows my mind to think of it that way , but it's true . That's why it scares me so much .
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: horsepoor21 May 18, 2007, 09:09:33 PM
I thought rotties were awesome dogs too , this dog was incredibly sweet and until this happened , a great representation of the breed . I know they all don't turn , but I just won't take the chance . If it had been a newfie , you can bet I wouldn't own them either .

Oh well . I saw what I saw and I've been changed forever . :'(
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 10:29:44 PM
I thought rotties were awesome dogs too , this dog was incredibly sweet and until this happened , a great representation of the breed . I know they all don't turn , but I just won't take the chance . If it had been a newfie , you can bet I wouldn't own them either .

Oh well . I saw what I saw and I've been changed forever . :'(

I'm quite positive if the people on the board with kids that have nothing but good things to say about some of so called 'vicious' breeds, were to have one of them attack their baby right in front of them for seemingly no reason, they would have a change of heart. If not, well, I don't know what to say about that parent.

I agree with you and if this were to have happened to me, I would feel the same way. You have to put your kids first. No one has the right to try and change your opinion of a dog that attacked your own helpless baby. And you can't change your feelings, that's understandable . I know you're not singling out any breed here, that's clear. It just so happened the one that did it, has a bad reputation also.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 10:32:26 PM
Despite what hidden cause there may be that made me dog go off, it seems like these are excuses being made for them and no one feeling bad for the victims. Is this a good enough reason to trust the dog around people/children still? It would sound that way to me.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 11:12:30 PM
Well no one said they hated any animal for it, just that they were scared and distrusting, which is understandable . I agree getting an infected bite even from a cat would be scary.

If one of my dogs attacked one of my kids, they would be out of here- end of story. A bigger dog is gonna be able to do a heck of a lot more damage than an ankle biter. But little dogs tend to be much nippier in my experience. And if I had a cat prone to attacking they wouldn't be here either. Yes, having no pets with teeth is about the only way to guarantee no biting.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 11:25:49 PM
Just wanted to state again no one said they hated any breed of dog. People are being a bit oversensitive about this in my opinion, but that's just one opinion. I could honestly care less if the whole world could get attacked by a dog and still want to be around it, still put their kids around, or whatever. It's not going to change the fact that I would not. Does it make you better than me? Nope. Just makes us different.

This thread is accomplishing nothing but bitter feelings it seems and the I'm better than you attitude. I still think you guys are great and love that we all are different and so we can bring different things to the table. I don't think that is the case with others though, it would seem people have taken this entirely too personal. It's nice when people can just have a discussion without getting bent. Hopefully it's not done lasting damage. ::)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Gevaudan_Jo May 18, 2007, 11:42:03 PM
I agree with you Liz, I too, wouldnt trust Zero around a kid if my life depended on it... Zero IS NOT socialized to be with kids, we have none, and i dont have any near us that i would net near my dogs with a 20ft pole. Our neighbour kids all torment my dogs, and i warn them to not come into the yard or anything due to UNKNOWN DOG REACTIONS. i said "he probably wouldnt bite, but why chance it! Like, i love him to death, but i know this about him, and while walking him, if kids walk by i will hold him back, and if kids try to approach, i will tell them no. i think more owners should pay more attention to the dogs body language in order to know what will happen.  On the other hand, again, Zero- i wont let him near any dogs i dont know, or he doesnt know... OR any intact males... Zero has BAD BAD BAD dominance issues. and he will go after another dog. Its sad when i see this with the way he treats memphis (Which is why memphis is sperated from him 24/7). it sucks for sure. But because we know this behaviour,we work with it, and work to keep people to KNOW not to let their dogs near mine...
People are idiots... thats all hahaha
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 18, 2007, 11:55:17 PM
I was just trying to say, for example my 5 month old pup could fit my babies whole head in his mouth already if he wanted to, whereas my MIL's maltese could fit like her toe? There is just a big difference there that I think is obvious and doesn't need to be explained. Also a 4lb dog is going to be much easier to gain control over should they bite or attack someone, than a dog who weighs close or more than what I weigh. It makes the situation much more scary and the outcome so much more tragic.

I could honestly care less if people are afraid of my dogs (not because they SHOULD be to clarify), again I know a lot of people want everybody to befriend them and want to be near their dogs but honestly, I don't. Another reason I chose them was for the protection factor and the fact that people will be intimidated by their size etc. and deter them from bothering us. I don't want people coming up to the fence to pet the big white fluffy dogs standing behind it, I want them to be too afraid to come up to the fence since they shouldn't there anyway. I don't feel safe walking alone with my kids down the street, not because I live in a bad area, I don't but because I know that weird people are everywhere. So, I look forward to the day my dogs are huge and intimidating so we can walk down the street and be left alone. Or when hubby has to go out state for work, and leave us here.

It's nice when good people want to engage them and ask questions about them, but when they're older and have come into their protective ways, hopefully they'll know who to trust and who to not.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: mama23+pyrs2 May 19, 2007, 12:56:21 AM
Okay, I have an idea. Since you guys all seem to agree that it's not right to be afraid of an entire breed based on individual incidents, and that those have nothing to do with the breed itself, but the indivdual traits, problems with that dog. Then it would also be inaccurate to say 'I love Pitbulls', or 'I love Rotties', etc etc, just based on the individuals you have met or owned and had good experiences with. Right? Just because I love my Pyrs and they are the best dogs I've owned so far, I can surely sit here and say I bet I could meet a Pyr I didn't like. :D So if that's the case I can agree with both of those statments.

Okay, I'm done. Back to the people who want to talk about their dogs because they love their dogs. Enjoy! :) Time for me to go slave over my house. >:(

I'm OUT!

Real cute pic of Phelan by the way, he has a real kissable face. ;)

: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: morph's mom May 19, 2007, 04:45:21 AM
First off Congrats Phelan that is awsome.

Second off I have never said anything about this before but now I would like to tell you all a story.  This is very hard for me because I still love Sasha and miss her daily.  This is the reason why we moved from my dads place and explains why he will NEVER accept Morph or feel "Safe" around him. 

It was 2 days before Masons third birthday he was out in the yard playing barefooted with alot of other kids from the neighborhood.  Sasha our bullmastiff that we had rescued about a year before was out side with the kids along with Oso our neighbors keeshound and AJ our keeshound.  The dogs were all given a rawhide bone each and were chewing on them.  Sasha brought hers inside and layed down on the couch with it when all of the adults came in to get some drinks.  While we were inside Mase came in limping and said that his foot hurt so I took him into the livingroom and sat him on the couch beside Sasha.  This was nothing new because they layed that way everyday while watching TV and I sat on the coffee table not a foot away from him.  I checked his foot and saw a bruise.  Smitty got up to open turn on a light and in a split second Sasha jumped up and grabbed Mason in the face.  I had to jump up and punch her in the head to force her to let go.  We put her outside and took Mason to the hospital.  He ended up with a torn saliva gland, cuts on his gums cause she went all the way through, and a total of 58 stitches to sew him up. 

Did I send her to the pound??  Walk outside with my gun and shoot her?? No !!!  Why you might ask?? Because that 2 year old little boy on the way home from the hospital with his face all swollen to where he could barely talk told me " Mommy.. Sasha isnt a bad dog..  she didnt mean too, it was an accident."  When we got home Sasha would not come into the house untill Mason called her.  He walked over to her and gave her a big hug around her neck and told her it was ok she didnt mean too.  We took her back to the rescue two days later and she now has a Great home with an older couple who has no kids or grandkids. 

Was this an unprovoked attack?? It truely may seem that way.  And that is what we though for the first day afterward.  But in hindsight here are the things that I did not tell you...  Sasha was laying on the couch with a rawhide bone.  AJ and Oso Were on opposite ends of the couch watching her eat her bone and us dealing with Mason.  Mason was crying and may have possibly put and elbow across her nose when he tried to sit up and get away from me. 

Knowing what I know now I could have changed one of the things listed above and maybe this would not have happened.  Do I hate bullmastiffs now because of what happened to my son??  No Am I more cautious around them? yes to a certain exent.  Am I a bad parent because this happned to my son??  I dont believe soo.  My father however will never accept Morph because he is a Matiff and he belives that all Mastiffs are the same.  My dad looks at Masons face and sees a vicious dog that attacked his grandon.  I look at Masons face and see a mistake that I made by not being aware of my surroundings and a wonderful dog that was forced out of our lives by that mistake.  I firmly belive that you can not judge the Breed you can only judge the actual dog.  And yes accidents do happen but sometimes as in my situation you have to look at what was going on in the BIG picture. 

This is just my personal experience and my views.  Please dont take offence to anything that I have said as it was not meant that way.  I agree with Jenn that I still love all dogs and always will.

Here is a pic of my beautiful girl Sasha.  She was a full blooded Long Haired red Bullmastiff.  Before we got her she was hit by a car and broke her jaw.  That is why her tongue hangs out of her mouth that way.

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l306/tazbc/Sasha.jpg)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI June 05, 2007, 12:38:46 AM
Very true and hopefully one that was dangerous would give some kind of warning sign before you got close enough to pet it, but I don't know.  When hubby was walking Yukon the other night a little girl ran up to him and thew her arms around him hugging him, her parents apparently looked quite concerned but quickly realized he was harmless and just enjoying the love. :)

The only Pitbull I've seen in years was at the SPCA last time I took the pups in for their shots. It was a female and the lady said she was just a baby but she didn't resemble one that was too young. She wasn't large by any means but she was WIRED, like her front feet never touched the ground that's how crazy she was and choking herself the entire time. The old man with her kept hitting her with his cane telling her to behave and settle down. The lady that had ahold of the leash would not let her get anywhere near another dog or person. She said about a thousand times that she just wanted to play and doesn't realize her size and would 'hurt our puppies'. Meanwhile Yukon was much larger than her. I had to wonder if she just didn't trust the dog, just not sure...it was kinda strange.

Then I go home and read up on them a little and how they tend to be animal agressive when they aren't raised properly and will go for the throat of a dog...that is terrifying! Like how would the other dog even stand a chance? They are all jaws. :-\




They do tend to be animal aggressive if not socialized. But if this was a puppy then it is very unlikely to have aggression yet. PBs are very energetic dogs. But just because they are very excitable does not mean they are trying to attack. If the owner of this dog does not trust it then they do not need to have it because they should know that puppies are not aggressive and you still have time to socialize it. PBs are the best at what you make them. Some stupid mean people teach them to be aggressive and they are the best. ANd then responsible pb owners socialize them and teach to be good loving dogs and then they are the best at that. Also from the sound of it the guy who was hittingher does not know how to train or control a dog. Yelling does no good, it must be a quick stern noise llike I use EH! Something to get their attention. Anyways, its really hard for me to talk about this over the enternet because I have so much I could say. I hope this helps you to see though.  :)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI June 05, 2007, 12:50:40 AM
This is just purely an honest question. Do you truly think there are just as many say, Golden Retriever attacks as there are Pitbull attacks and the media just never finds out or hides it from the public? Or do they just happen to be Pitbulls a lot of the time and people's fears of them grow worse thereby continuing to tarnish their reputation?




No there probably aren't as many golden retriever attacks as pitbulls. But you have to look at why, people that fight dogs and trsain them to be aggressive don't want goldens. They use dogs like pbs shepards and rotts. So there are more of them out there that were made to be mean. Now if Goldens were trained to fight and be aggressive like pbs then yes I believe there would be as many and possibly more than pbs. now from statistics there are more bites by shepards than pbs. And its not they are hiding other bites just that when the public hears Pitbull attack they go EEEKE!!! But they just shrug it off if its another breed. So there is the reason they don't worry about other attacks. The media just wants people to watch at anyone or things expense and they are going to give the public what they want. Also did you know pbs are in the top four on the temperment tests. Above breeds like cockers and others.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI June 05, 2007, 12:57:45 AM
mama23+pyrs2, I think we have been trying to answer your questions.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but this is a pretty hot button issue, so you are also going to hear some opinions that clash with yours.  I think this has been a very civilized discussion, and we encourage that on the forum.


If it sounded as I was calling you ignorant I want to apoligize. My goal is to educate people on the breed that I adore. I started this forum never thinking it would end up like this but I am glad it did, because if I feel I may have shown one person the other side of the story then i feel I helped make a difference. pbs can not speak for themselves so I have reserched and researched and still continue to so that I may speak for them by educating people about this breed. In reality this BSL is All dog owners against a lazy government. The more EVERYONE fights it the less likely your breed will be next.

I don't mind opinions that clash with mine, that is what this world is about. I accept them. I don't see my opinion anywhere near accepted but being bashed and told I am ignorant and prejudice. It's easy to sit on the other side of the fence when people agree with you, very easy.

If an effort was being made to educate me rather than criticize me, I do appreciate the effort. Maybe I missed it, I'm working with pg brain over here.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: FXgirl June 05, 2007, 01:34:39 AM
One of THE best websites EVER on pitbulls etc.  Education for those who know nothing about the dogs or for those who claim to know everything will learn a whole lot more... http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html (http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html)

I spent hours there.  Excellent site.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI June 06, 2007, 12:56:07 AM
One of THE best websites EVER on pitbulls etc.  Education for those who know nothing about the dogs or for those who claim to know everything will learn a whole lot more... http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html (http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html)

I spent hours there.  Excellent site.

I am glad you Put up that site. It is very good, but there are many more sites available and all have great information. If anyone wants to learn about apbts I suggest searching though google and reading many different websites. Just stay away from Biased sites. Not only may they really dislike pits and feed you racist info, but they may love pitbulls and lead you away from facts. These dogs are wonderful companions for THE RESPONSIBLE OWNER ONLY!!! Well all have a wonderful week!!  ;D ;D ;D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: fila4me June 06, 2007, 04:21:30 AM


I have to disagree about Pyrs being prone to attack people. There is a huge difference in the breed purpose. Pyrs are to protect the flock, Pitbulls are to guard the property and people. Pyrs are barkers and not attackers. Anyone can enter the house with Pyr in it and do not suffer an injury. Now, try doing it with Pitbull in it! Pitbulls are wonderful companions and great guard dogs. They will go for the throat! "Truly quality companions for quality owners only!"
Pit bulls are NOT guard dogs! They stink at it! My girl will bark until I open the door! Then the attack is on, the lick attack!!!!And, they do not go for the throat. Not sure where you heard that myth. That ranks right with "lock jaw"! Here is a little info from www.pitbullson theweb.com

A Good Pit Bull

A Good Pit Bull is a very people-oriented dog. It's a dog who smiles at your visitors and greets them with a wagging tail. A good Pit Bull is confident and alert, and like most canines, will let you know if there is something around the house or in your driveway. However, a good Pit Bull will let YOU take care of intruders because YOU are the leader and its YOUR job to protect the pack. Your dog should not have to interpret threats and act on them.

You "hopefully" didn't get a Pit Bull to protect you anyway. If you needed a guard dog, you would have looked into other breeds more suitable for protection, or best, just get a good alarm system. You would not impose to an animal the responsibility to judge situations and make intelligent decisions that could eventually bite him back in the @ss if ever he was wrong...!

You got a Pit Bull because you wanted a trustworthy and friendly companion, and maybe a dog with an impressive look and confidant demeanor so people would "think" you have a good guard dog. You have since realized that YOU better be the guard dog because your Pit Bull is indeed more at risk of being stolen than your TV.

Don't be bummed. If ever you are the victim of an act of violence, a good Pit Bull will probably instinctively attempt to defend you because you are the food provider and he depends on you for his survival (and yes, he loves you too ;-) If you are not being aggressed though, a good Pit Bull will be friendly with anyone with no distinction in regard to age, sex, skin color, clothing, ect, because a good Pit Bull is a stable dog and you have socialized him well.

You can take your good Pit Bull in public and do breed PR with him because you trust your dog and your dog trusts you. He is not unpredictable, unstable, fearful, uncontrollable, or selective of who he "likes" and who makes him uncomfortable. Your good Pit Bull will work with you to improve the reputation of the breed by showing people how cool and friendly good Pit Bulls really are.

If your dog is not like that, please do not take him in public and do all you can to keep him out of trouble. Remember that we are the solders of an important battle. Our dogs are no ordinary dogs. They are being "targeted", "pointed at" and "outcast" by society. They are on the verge of being completely banned out of this country. Our dogs have something to prove right now, and so do we.

A friend of mine's house was broken into while she was at work. She lost everything but her bed, her dogs and their crates. When she got home all of her pit bulls, she has 4, were in their crates. She keeps them in seperate rooms with doors shut while she is gone. Crates are only for night time. Good guard dogs, NOT!! The robbers put them in their crates.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 06, 2007, 05:51:00 AM
I am going to fully agree with what was stated in the "Good Pit Bull Post".

As someone who has extensive experience with Bully breeds for the past 9 years (I own a 6yo APBT, have fostered and continue to foster countless bull breeds and did behavioral work at a bull-exclusive shelter), here are my experiences with these wonderful dogs:

1) Pit Bulls make lousy guard dogs!  (I had to teach my girl to bark/growl by wiggling my eyebrows and now when I ask her to make noise, she lets out this coonhound-esque bay while waggling her entire rear end). This is a breed that was bred for many, MANY years to be extremely non-human aggressive. What sense would it make to breed a dog that was once used for fighting to turn and latch onto the human that was trying to intervene and break up a fight? - none.  A human aggressive Pit is not a stable pit.   It is true that they may have dog/animal aggression, but not all American Pit Bull Terriers are this way.  An APBT that shows a tendincy towards human aggressive should get one simple solution - an injection of pink juice.  It may sound harsh, but these wonderful dogs don't deserve any more bad press.

2. I'd just like to throw out a few statistics...b ecause the math frustrates me:
The information at http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html is meaningless at best.

“According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.”

When you lump together “pit bulls” and “pit bull mixes” - essentially redundant designations that encompass an extremely huge population of mutts, along with another popular breed, Rottweilers you get just over 50% of serious dog attacks. Is this a surprise? A pit bull is in the eye of the beholder, and when that eye is a news reporter looking for a fantastic story or a policemen, it’s usually the dog that just bit someone.

The statistics regarding children are also misleading. Most serious dog attacks are on children. Period.

Then lets look at these:
Let’s take the (Very flawed) CDC statistics (a study they did where they tracked dog bites from 1979-1998) for an example, even as flawed as they are.
“Pit Bulls” (and mixes) are responsible for 76 deaths in 20 years according to the study. That averages out to 3.8 deaths -per year-.
Okay. Sure.
In 2004, there were approximately 1,117 children that died by neglect and/or abuse at the hands of their own parents, according to the Admistration for Children and Families. That averages out to 3 *per day*.

Are we working to ban parents too?
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 06, 2007, 09:12:15 PM
Hello Everybody

At first i was going to avoid this disscusion... I knew it would be asking for trouble because so many people are so sensitive to it.. But i must say that i am getting so sick and tired of hearing people try to defend Pitbulls from the media... And blaming the Media for the bad publicity of the Breed.... Why are Pitbull Lovers and owners spending so much time getting upset everytime a attack is mentioned an the television... Why are you not out trying to protect this breed you Love from irresponsible people...You should be warning people of the Strenghth of the Dog when it is in the Hands of a irresponsible pet owner... Of course i know this can go for any Dog, But as we all know Pitbulls are very Strong, and most people and Children that do get attacked by one rarley survive to talk about it...Look at your local Paper in the Classified adds... Every week there are about 3 to 5 adds selling Pitbull Pups.... any where from 100$ to 300$..... where the other breeds are being sold for much more Money... People are more likely to buy a Pitbull Pup if they can not afford anything else... Most of these people are young, and Misinformed how to raise this dog... They will assume you have to be extra tough with it to get it to listen... Many people Train these dogs all wrong.... Go to your local pet Shelter... You will see that most dogs in there are Pitbulls or Pitbull mixes..... Ask the Shelter which dog breed is put down most in a year... It would be the Pitbull or Pit Mixes.... Ask a Animal control worker which breed they get calls on the MOst, and which breed they have been attacked by the most.... It would again be Pitbull.... I am not out to belittle the Breed at all.... Pitbull is actually a very amazing Dog when in the hands of a responsible pet owner, But unfortunatly that it not the majority no matter what it said.... Go walk down some of the lower class neighborhoods in your area.... You will be amazed to see how many pitbulls are tied to chains.... There are a lot of them....I am not afarid of the responsible Pet owners Pitbull.... More than likely i will never see them walking down the road by them selves.... I do not have to be afraid of their Dog....The Pitbull walking down the road by it's self is not going to be wagging it's tail with the Big Pitbull Smile on it's face.....I know there are problems with many other breeds of dogs as well.... But this Post is about the Pitbull.... Pitbull owners and Lovers... If you Love this dog sooo much, then why are you not out trying to protect it from Irresponsible people and over Breeding instead of always trying to protect it against the Media, and from people who are afraid of them....You more than anyone are aware of the strenghth of this dog..... you also know what it is capable of when in the hands of the wrong person.....Thi s has been going on for years now.... It always has been a heated Discussion.... . It is always hard to defend your point when talking about Pitbulls with Someone who is trying to protect them.... I do not think the Pitbull should be banned completley, But i do believe people should have to apply to have one, and be registered.... I admire that some of you want to save the Pitbulls reputation, But i also think you are going about it the wrong way..... I apoligize if anyone has been offended, But i do beieve what i am saying to be right..

Kind Regards,
Shell
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole June 06, 2007, 09:22:58 PM
Shell,

First, let me apoligize right from the beginning. I read the first few lines of your post and then sort of scanned the rest. It was very difficult to read because of all the ...'s. Just being honest!  ;D

Anyway, I think that the so-called "Pittbull lovers" DO try and educate about their favorite breed. I think that is what happened from the beginning in this thread! I'm a huge advocate for the breed (and I don't own one). I'm CONSTANTLY trying to educate, educate, educate.

And, as far as "most of the dogs in the shelters" being pitties, that's just a random guess on your part. I have worked in several shelters in different parts of the country. Ya know what the number one breed was in the shelter in Bloomington, IN where I worked? Hounds. Yup. Beagles, Bloodhounds, Coonhounds, Heelers, GSP...people thought they were all hunters down there. They bred and raised good ol' huntin' dogs. We put down more of that breed than anything else. Sooo...as far as the pitty perception...y ou're just kinda wrong.


Where is the data proving that people are more likely to buy a pitty pup if they can't afford anything else? I haven't ever read that study. Last time I checked, pups at my shelter carried a $65 adoption fee. I was there 2 days ago, and didn't see a pitty in there. Not one. But there is a wonderful Newf X girl I'm going to adopt...

My point is that you are basing your views on your own perceptions. Which is FINE, but don't try and state them as fact.

OH, and I forgot to add:

Lucian's daddy: AAAAAAAAAAAMEN! More kids are murdered by their parents than dogs. Thanks for making this sobering point.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole June 06, 2007, 09:47:23 PM
Oh, Jenn. Good point about the Golden. It doesn't matter what the breed is. Bad owners are bad owners. You know what the big thing was in North Carolina when I lived there?

Wolf hybrids.

Yup. People all had these "wolves" ("He's 98.245% Timber. Fer real"  ::)) There were so many of them in shelters, and they had to put them down. It sucked. And so many of them were just tied up in the back 40. People thought they were "wild" and could take care of themselves. Idiots.

: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 06, 2007, 10:12:37 PM
Hi again,
Besides doing my part and attempting to debunk the media's attempts at railroading one of my favorite breeds of dog, I also spend a great deal of time educating the public (and less dog savvy folks) about what exactly is involved in owning one of these guys.

One perfect example of this is my somewhat controversial (to some) stance on Pitties and dogparks.  My Reef girl is not dog aggressive.  I have had her for 6 years - she has been exposed to countless fosters and boarders of all shapes, sizes and personality types coming in and out of this house (not to mention many different species- from rats to cats to squirrels to possums to raccoons to ..oh you don't even want to know!)  She meets every dog on the street with a friendly sniff and then, if they know their manners, a play bow and maybe even some zoomies if they get to know each other *really* well!  (if there is attempted humping involved she'll give a warning bark and turn the other way!)  All this being said- she will NEVER go to a dog park.  Nor do I think that any Pit Bull belongs in a dog park in this day and age, be it the most placid and peaceful of dogs.  My reason for this- if an altercation starts- between ANY dogs- if the bully goes to check it out- pack mentality takes over- if it gets involved in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM- guess who is going to be blamed?  The evil Pit Bull.  Case closed.  If a toddler (who shouldn't be in a dog park anyways) gets knocked over by a overzealous dog and it happens to be a Pit Bull - it's going to get spun as an attempted "attack" - The breed simply can't handle it.  My Reef girl gets to go to street fairs, trail hikes, camping and all sorts of fun adventures, but the dog park is forever off limits, due to her "race".
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole June 06, 2007, 10:18:59 PM
I hear ya, Dan. I don't blame you one bit. Its too big of a risk to take. And its through no fault of Reef's own, ya know?
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 06, 2007, 10:44:40 PM
H Ask a Animal control worker which breed they get calls on the MOst, and which breed they have been attacked by the most.... It would again be Pitbull....

Having worked in a Humane society setting for a good amount of time, I would absolutely disagree with this statement- 100%.  I can think of one - MAYBE 2 times I had to use a catch pole on a Pit.  When I think of the breeds that routinely went after us the ones that come to mind are:
Chows
Min Pins
Chi's
Cockers
Dalmations

I know many others in the animal control field who will also back me up on that statement. (about the APBT's that is)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 06, 2007, 10:59:47 PM
Nicole

You must have read most of my post, because you responded to everything I said... I live next to a man who works for Animal Control, and we have had many disscussions about pitbulls.I also have a Brother who raises, and breeds Good Pitbulls.. He will be the first to tell you about the issues,  He is also trying to protect the Breed from irresponsible people, and does not constantly make excuses when a animal attacks.. He also screens anyone who wants one of his Pups, And He will say there is a Huge problem with over breeding by irresponsible people.... Funny how people can get so defensive over this stuff.. Remember a Dog is a reflection of the Owner.. Keep that in mind

Shell

Also... Next time you get a chance look at your classified Adds
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: fila4me June 07, 2007, 12:09:33 AM
I live in Roanoke, VA. My step-in and out mom is a retired ACO of 25yrs. And, before that she was a vet tech. FOr the last 5yrs since she retired she has helped established 2 low cost spay neuter clinics.Everyt hing she does is for the animals. I have spent many years at the shelters with her either walking, bathing, brushing and/or just giving love and attention to shelter animals. She has had numerous rescues in and out of her house. That said, here we do not have an overabundance of pits in the shelters, most reported bites are from goldens, cockers, chows or labs. She said in all of her years she has only met 1 nasty pit bull!

My boyfriend is a UPS delivery driver and has been bitten by a schnauzer and a couple of labs. The most aggressive dogs he sees are shepherds, Labs and mixes. He says he has seen a lot of pit bulls on his route but they just bark and keep their distance. One shepherd in particular jumped in the back of his truck and wouldn't let him back in!

And, I ALWYAS preach resposible pet ownership. I am teaching my 3 1/2 yro daughter the proper way to be a pet owner. Check out www.maxtheshel terdog.com and you will see my daughter Kellin and our dog Chynna all over it! Positive image!! We hang out on most Saturdays outside Petsmart with Chynna in tow, to promote positive pit bull imaging. Chynna is trained in basic and advanced obedience, has her CGC and is a certified therapy dog! I take her everywhere and expose her. I am never to busy to answer anyones questions regarding pit bulls!

I live my life with my dogs like this, the moment I leave my house with my dog(even in my yard),we(my dog and I)represent EVERY dog that breed! So, if I am some bi**hy pit bull owner and rude when people comment and/or ask questions, and believe me most are not nice,and showed an attitude to them what would that do! It would just enforce their negative image regarding this breed and the type of people who own them! If my dog is misbehaved and out of control, that reflects bad on the whole breed. It is sad that it works that way but it does and I don't want that image. I want people that meet Chynna to remember and tell others what an awesome pit bull they met! And believe me that is the only thing they could say after meeting her!

And, Shell I do cruise the classifieds daily! Here we have very few ads for pit bulls. But, believe me I do call them when they are in there.

In regards to your brother who breeds and raises "Good Pit bulls" and is trying to protect them, one question! Why does he breed them then? For every puppy he breeds that is one more pit bull that loses its life in a shelter! Has he the responsible breeder never thought of it that way?Does he keep track of his pups until they die? Does he have a strict contract that states he can remove the pup/dog if he disapproves of current living situations?Does he rescue? Do his breeding stock have all available health tests and screenings with results for potential purchasers to view? Does he show his dogs?If so, are they titled?Does he do weight pull?Agility? Do they have their CGC? Therapy dogs? What extreme quality and characteristic s do they posses that they we excellent specimens to breed?Does he do home visits?vet verifications? Talk to neighbors during home visit?

I am sorry but, I feel very strongly about this for ANY breed! I mentored years ago with the breeder of my FIlas and Dogos and those where a few of the things that she does. She is very strict and most people don't make it past the first page of her application. I have repo'd more than a couple of dogs with her that even after all of the hoops the owners hid things. But she will only sell within a 200 mile radius. And, I still do random home checks for her! It is a lot of fun!

 


: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 07, 2007, 01:39:01 AM
Julie, That is exactly my point.. I have said in no way am i trying to bash a breed.. i also stated how people get very defensive when discussing Pitbulls.. I have involved myself in a conversation that will go no where except getting more defensive comments back, But i will say to Tammy.. I truely admire what you are doing.. You are very right when you say it is important that you keep a good tone with people when talking about the breed you love.. That is what i mean when i said " A dog is a reflection of its owner" I have found that in talking about Pitbulls most of the people do become very defensive, and that is why it becomes hard to talk about it... Tammy you are doing the Best thing you can be doing for your breed with that kind of attitude, My Brother is doing the very same thing, and i also admire him for that... My brother has 5 children, and he has never had a problem at all with any of his dogs hurting his children, But his son was attacked by another Pitbull on the street in front of his house, and most of his little face was ripped off... My Brother is extremly strong, and was able to save his Son... I had mentioned in another post how a Pitbull charged my yard after my Son, and was saved by my Saint Bernard "Butterfly"... I feel i have the right to state a comment without having to defend what i say.. I think that those of you who are choosing to get bad attitudes in return are the ones who are making it hard on responsible Pitbull owners to state there case... Julie. I admire the Pitbull... I dislike ignorant people

Shell
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole June 07, 2007, 02:20:18 AM
Nicole

You must have read most of my post, because you responded to everything I said... I live next to a man who works for Animal Control, and we have had many disscussions about pitbulls.I also have a Brother who raises, and breeds Good Pitbulls.. He will be the first to tell you about the issues,  He is also trying to protect the Breed from irresponsible people, and does not constantly make excuses when a animal attacks.. He also screens anyone who wants one of his Pups, And He will say there is a Huge problem with over breeding by irresponsible people.... Funny how people can get so defensive over this stuff.. Remember a Dog is a reflection of the Owner.. Keep that in mind

Shell

Also... Next time you get a chance look at your classified Adds

Hi Shell,
Took your advice. Here are the classifieds from the Michigan City News Dispatch.

 1 Free to good home, male neutered Lab/Basset Mix, needs room to roam. (219)874-6741 
   2 Kittens, fluffy fur balls, free to good homes. 219-861-7008 
   3 Weimaraner - Male
Free to good home, 8 months, housetrained. Call (219)448-0164 


Ok. Now what?
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 07, 2007, 05:02:26 AM
Ok... please, I don't mean to be nitpicky (maybe I do) but the breed is an American Pit Bull Terrier. So call them Pits, or Pit Bulls or APBT's , but a "pitbull" is not a breed.  - done.


Shell,
I am curious too about the questions Nicole asked- does your brother title his dogs?  Compete in events (CGC, weight pull)?  Does he do complete health testing (includes hip and elbow x-rays, cardiac and thyroid tests, as well as testing for genetic problems?  Does he have waiting lists for his litters?

If the answer is "no" to any of these questions, I'm sorry to say that he is only contributing to the problem of the many,many Pit Bulls who do need homes.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: fila4me June 07, 2007, 05:05:25 AM
Ok... please, I don't mean to be nitpicky (maybe I do) but the breed is an American Pit Bull Terrier. So call them Pits, or Pit Bulls or APBT's , but a "pitbull" is not a breed.  - done.


Shell,
I am curious too about the questions Nicole asked- does your brother title his dogs?  Compete in events (CGC, weight pull)?  Does he do complete health testing (includes hip and elbow x-rays, cardiac and thyroid tests, as well as testing for genetic problems?  Does he have waiting lists for his litters?

If the answer is "no" to any of these questions, I'm sorry to say that he is only contributing to the problem of the many,many Pit Bulls who do need homes.

Actually, I am Tammy. I asked those important questions! And, I do agree on the "pitbull", "pittbull" bothers me also.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 07, 2007, 05:05:48 AM
Whoops!  I'm sorry!! ::)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: fila4me June 07, 2007, 05:08:23 AM
Whoops!  I'm sorry!! ::)
no problem!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole June 07, 2007, 05:15:35 AM
I like to call them pitties cuz I think its cute. I realize that pitbull isn't a breed.  ;)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: fila4me June 07, 2007, 05:19:29 AM
I like to call them pitties cuz I think its cute. I realize that pitbull isn't a breed.  ;)

Actually, I say pittie sometimes also. I have a problem with the combined "pitbull" and/or the misspelling, with two t's(pittbull or pitt bull).No problem just a pet peeve!! ;D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 07, 2007, 05:19:37 AM
I think pitties and pibbles and the cute nicknames are fine...It's just when they are called "pitbulls" and "pittbulls" or "pitts" that it makes me a little loony!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 07, 2007, 05:29:01 AM
Now I feel bad!  I am not the technical term gestapo or anything! I too call them "Pitties" and "Pibbles" and "lilpittipoopoo's" - I just don't like it when people think it is correct to combine the two words or call them "red nose" *groan*
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 07, 2007, 05:57:51 AM
Tammy
The answer to all of your above questions are "Yes", and then some.. I called my Brother today and we had a very long disscussion about this all.. Very good Talk, My Brother also does seminars with the local police department in our area making them aware of Pit Bulls and how to approach and handle these Dogs, Being that Most of the area the Police are in have Pit Bulls...I also called  2 of the shelters in our area.. There are a total of 16 Pit Bulls between the 2 of them, and 6 of them in the Animal control Shelter.. 4 of those 6 were taken due to other animal agression, and one of them killing a Beagle, None of these were mentioned on the news, So media does not even report half of the attacks...We also have had 2 raids in the area recently taking a total of 250 Pit Bulls, One of those homes being Michael Vick, and the other being a Woman who had a Small trailer in the country with Kennels full of Pit Bulls, My Husband is a Social Worker, and he had to work that case because there were children involved.. I think Pit Bulls are amazing Dogs when handled properly, The Problem here is with the people... I am not Bashing the Breed, I am Bashing the People who have allowed this breed to get like this... You are spending way to much time Defending the Dog... They are Not the Problem.. Deal with the people first, Then Save your Beloved Breed..

By the Way.. Here are the adds in todays paper from the classifieds in my area
PIT BULLS Male pups, 6 wks old. Female, 9 months old. Free to good home. #######  ... More

 See Description
Hampton Roads, VA  N/A 6/5/2007
PIT Bull Puppies Turtlebuster Redboy Bolio $350. Call #######  ... More 


PIT BULLS 2, Blue/ Purple ribbon, razors edge for studding. Call #######.  ... More

PIT BULLS Purple ribbon, razors edge, 1 Blue, 7 whites. $200/nego. Call ######### ... More

PIT BULL PUPPIES Red Boy Bolio Turtlebuster bloodlines. $350. Call #######  ... More


: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: fila4me June 07, 2007, 06:10:28 AM
That is awesome of your brother! KUDOS!!!!

If you have a way to deal with all of the irresponsible owners PLEASE pass it on! I have cruised the areas around me with high populations of pit bulls. If I see things I don't think are kosher I report them and report them and report them, until something is done! Either the owner does the correct thing, re doghouse, water bucket, food bowl, longer tie out, new collar, whatever! I personally have purchased mentioned items and gave them to ACO to give to people I have called on. I tell them to say they are donations. I pass out the flyers for the local low cost spay neuter clinics, they also vaccinate. I copy and distribute whenever there is a rabis clinic. I post them in these areas at stores on telephone poles etc.I keep leashes in my car and attempt to give them out to pit bulls being walked on chains. Most do take them! I need to restock on my collars.

Along with the other things I do, I am not sure what else to do to help people be responsible.

Ideas anyone!!!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: DogGuideDan June 07, 2007, 06:17:01 AM
You are spending way to much time Defending the Dog... They are Not the Problem.. Deal with the people first, Then Save your Beloved Breed..


So your brother does have his dogs tested?  Does he do PennHIP or OFA? 

As for spending time defending the breed - there can NEVER be too much time spent defending a cause that you believe in.  There is never a second wasted when someone you care about is wrongfully accused of a crime.  I educate the few people that I deal with on a daily basis about APBT's and what a wonderful and misunderstood breed they are.  Reef educates the masses she meets with her wonderful character and charismatic ways.  I am not a police officer- I do not have the power to arrest those who neglect and abuse animals.  It is the job of law enforcement to stop criminal behavior.  I cannot single handedly stop dog fighting, nor can I put a halt to all of the irresponsible breeding that takes place in this country.  However I will not stop defending my dog.  What sense would it make to do so? 
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 07, 2007, 07:34:05 AM
Tammy

I think what you are doing is great, I wish there were more people with your tone, and your passion for the Pit Bull.. I think you and my Brother would make great friends..He also told me about a program that he is getting started at one of the prisons in Virginia, He will be taking some of the Pit Bulls that he has rescued, and will be training the prisoners to take care of these Dogs, He will be showing them how to Handle and Train them... I think it is an excellent Idea, and it will give some of these dogs a second Chance, and also teach some of these Prisoners how to Love an Animal...I respect all of you who Love your Breed of Dog, I share that same passion for the Saint Bernard... We all have our Match,.. I have enjoyed this discussion today.. It has made my Day a little bit different.. Change is always good..
Best Wishes to you all, and good luck to those of you on a Mission to save the Pit Bull.

Shell
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 07, 2007, 09:48:05 AM
Hello Again everybody

I was going to sign off of this Forum, But tonight my house is quiet, and I thought I might share with you all why I feel the Way I feel from my own experience. I realize in stating some of my opinions that none of you know who I am, and that I may have seemed like some Random Person Spouting off about Pit Bulls, So I will Share with you some of My thoughts that Had started from about 15 years ago.

I know that some of you may be annoyed by the dots in my writing, But i choose to use them as an expression of my tone... If that makes any sense.

 OK. So here is My Story, Well some of it, because I have a really long Story, as I am sure many of you have as well.

 I grew up on an Indian Reservation In Montana, Pit Bulls were very foreign to me... I never saw one as a Child, And never really heard of them either..... There were Wolf Dogs, as someone had mentioned in a previous Post... They were pretty scary Dogs, But were actually very common.

 When I was a Teenager my Mother graduated from College, and moved my Two Sister my Brother, and Myself to Virginia... We started off living in a Low Class area..... Very different then what we were used to.... There were Many Pit Bulls in the Area... A dog that none of us had ever seen before.... They were very Scary looking, and most of them were not friendly at all.... Most of the young Thug Kids always had one on a chain walking it around trying to look tough.

 In the Alley behind our house is where everyone would gather at night to have Dog fights.... Pit Bull fights... It was a contest to see who had the toughest Dog... It was a horrifying thing to Watch... It often replays in my head how awful it was.... Sometimes Dogs would Kill other Dogs..... People would cheer when it would happen....It was very Sad.. In the area where we lived it was very common to see a Pit Bull running loose, and if there was you better have ran in the house. It was very hard to get animal control out there, Because it was a Low class area, and it was the least of their worries... There were also many Dog attacks on People and Small Children.... They were never mentioned on the news, Again because of the Area we were in.. The Media does not tell you about these places.... It is a Big Secret....So Yes the Media is able to say what they want to, and it is not that they are lying, but they do not tell the Whole truth....So needless to say it was a very scary thing to deal with there..

I remember a Time when i went to the South Bronx with my Brother, and we were stuck in a High rise for two days, because there was a Pit Bull Loose in the Hallway....Sim ular kind of crowd there who uses their Dogs as status symbols.

 Well, Back to this story..... My Brother had a Friend... His name was Harold....Haro ld was also an owner of a Pit Bull..... Harold was a very good Guy.... He was very good to his Dog... Of course I was terrified of it, because all of the other ones I had seen were very mean... Well, One day four Car loads of guys pulled up to Harolds house to start some trouble while my Brother was there.... My Brother was young at the Time, and had gotten involved in some silly gang stuff, Well it had came back to bite him in the Butt..... These guys Jumped my brother and Harold in the Yard... They were brutally beating them... I had ran down the road, and jumped on top of my Brother while he was being beat with a Pipe.... Harolds Girlfriend who was in the house opened the Door to let out Harolds Dog..... That Dog ran around attacking every one of those guys, and sent them all running like crazy..... That Dog knew exactly who was Bad, because it never even came near me or my Brother....Tha t Dog had saved all of our lives.

 Unfortunately Harold was Shot and Killed later on that night.... Very Sad story, So I do know that not all Pit Bulls are bad... I will be eternally grateful to that Dog, and I will always remember that day until I die.

 That is the reason my Brother has such a passion for the Pit Bull now when he is a grown man, And he is trying to protect the Breed from being in these kinds of Areas...... Please believe me when I say that it really is a Big problem there..... Many children in these areas are killed everyday by one of these dogs.... That is true.... You will not hear about them all, Because the Media does not care about the poor people.... People in these areas are terrified in some cases to leave their homes in fear of a loose dog...... It is a huge Problem, and people don't want to hear about it.

 I truly understand why you all Love the Pit Bull so much, But please know that all people are not like you with their Dogs.....They are being used as weapons in the projects.... They are a Status symbol there.... Also remember that Lower class areas are like being in two different worlds.

 I am grown up now, and I am far from that place... Now I live out in the country, and I did have an odd incident where a Pit Bull did charge my Yard a few weeks ago..... His owner is a very arrogant Man... Just moved here from the City.... He is also a very irresponsible man..... His Dog is a perfect reflection of him.

My Children and I usually go to the Shelter about once a Week.. It is like a Zoo for us.. There is not much to do where we live... My Heart always breaks for those Pit Bulls I see with scars on their faces... I know what they went through to get them... It is even sadder when I go back the next week to find out that they have been put down....It is a constant cycle here.

 I respect you all For loving this Breed.... But please try to make people aware how in the wrong hands this Dog can be like a Loaded Gun.... They need to be banned from these areas... Not because the Dog is Bad, But because the People are misusing them, and many people are getting hurt or killed.... It is not the Dogs Fault.... I Blame the people, But Pit Bull Lovers know what this Dog can Do, and it may take all of you to make a difference.

 There is a lot that goes on in other areas that some of you may not be aware of, but I promise you it is all true... I have seen it for many years, And I am glad to be away from there, But I do feel for those people who are living like that today, Because it has not changed much.

 My Brother still goes down into those areas today, and he saves Pit Bulls from these people.....To be Honest my Brother has taken many of them off of chains, and has taken them Home.... He is like the Pit Bull Whisperer  ;)   He is Brave I do know that, because I would be scared to death to do that, But he does, and I admire the way he has dedicated most of his Life to these dogs.

 His Children help him in raising his dogs, but he will not let them around the ones he has rescued... He knows they are very unpredictable with all they have been through, But he still tries to save them, and I think he is wonderful for doing it.

 Well, I realize this is very Long, and if you made it to the bottom without scanning over it then I thankyou.... One last thing before I end this.... Everything I said can go for any Dog of Any Breed..Not just the Pit Bull, But in this case it is the Pit Bull we are talking about.

Kind regards to you all My friends
Shell
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: horsepoor21 June 07, 2007, 11:24:33 AM
Awww Shell , what a touching story  :'( Your brother is so awesome for helping those dogs out to this day ! I was saved by a dog as well (only I was being attacked by another dog) so I totally know how you feel .
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 08, 2007, 11:39:46 PM
Julie

I love the Analogy you used with the Water.. It was Perfect ;)

Cheers
Shell
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole June 09, 2007, 04:20:54 AM
Shell,
We clearly share the same opinions on these dogs. My response to you was (albeit) confrontationa l because I felt as if you were assuming that we just defend the breed and not condemn the idiots that own them and create the monster.

We are. All of us. Every day. I appreciate the story and I could share mine, too. We all come (like Julie said) from different backgrounds. I actually live in a ghettoish kinda area. There are TONS of pitties around here and clearly tons of idiots. I'm always trying to teach someone SOMETHING about responsible dog ownership.

I hope that you can stick around and learn about us, too. We're a group of people with enormous hearts and teacher's souls. We teach, learn, love and share daily. You'll see.  ;D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Saint Butterfly June 09, 2007, 04:43:28 AM
Nicole
I enjoyed our debate
I send you Kind Regards... Thankyou ;)

Shell
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Nicole June 09, 2007, 05:02:03 AM
Hey Shell,
No problem. Although Holly says I'm a "female dog", its a total lie. ;)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI June 13, 2007, 08:59:53 PM
I imagine the difference is that a lot of us relate these to dog problems, rather than breed problems.  I have mostly mutts.  If one of my mutts was to bite my nephew unprovoked, I wouldn't banish all the mutts from my house, or say they're all bad.  If Kiden bit my nephew, I wouldn't relate it to a Dane issue ... I would say it was an issue with HER, and her alone.  Kwellen is only 30lbs.  She is a doll, but one day she may bite someone.  Who knows?  The only way to REALLY avoid the possibility of a bite in your household is to not have pets.  Period. 

On a side note ... my mom did see my cat bite me seemingly out of nowhere.  I was on antibiotics at the time for a sinus infection, so she cleaned my hand like she would for any injury, and sent me to bed.  By the next morning, it was swollen beyond belief.  She took me to the hospital and we had three specialists (including a plastic surgeon) on call in case my arm needed amputated.  It was incredibly scary, but I was fine.  The cat was fine ... he never once bit anyone again, and anyone in my family will assure you that he was the best cat we've ever had.  I know, I know, its a CAT.  No big harm, right?  Well, it is when you almost lose your arm.  The whole point is, it wasn't his fault.  I don't hate cats.  My mom doesn't hate cats.  We didn't rehome him or put him down.  And I think my mom is an EXCELLENT mother for the way she handled the situation.




I completely agree with this! When I was about 7 we had a chow/husky mix. After being gone all weekend I came in the house and ran u to him. I dropped down rigth in front of him and he jumped on me and gave me 6 stitches in my head. Though this happened we didn't give him away or put him down. We kept him and he never did anything again. He was a great dog. He just reacted. My mother also has a chow today who is 11 yrs. Now even though I watch him around my 3 yr old simply because my son is rough and the dog is old and grumpy but he is also a great dog. When you blame a whole breed because of a bite you are basically acting the same as the people who hate the breed. It may not seem the same but really it is. It is your choice and right not to have that same breed if it attacks your child. but that doesn't mean the whole breed is bad or unpredictable. All breeds can be unpredictable!
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI June 13, 2007, 09:04:48 PM
Shell,
We clearly share the same opinions on these dogs. My response to you was (albeit) confrontationa l because I felt as if you were assuming that we just defend the breed and not condemn the idiots that own them and create the monster.

We are. All of us. Every day. I appreciate the story and I could share mine, too. We all come (like Julie said) from different backgrounds. I actually live in a ghettoish kinda area. There are TONS of pitties around here and clearly tons of idiots. I'm always trying to teach someone SOMETHING about responsible dog ownership.

I hope that you can stick around and learn about us, too. We're a group of people with enormous hearts and teacher's souls. We teach, learn, love and share daily. You'll see.  ;D


I am the same I am always trying to educate someone about pitbulls. It is my goal in life. I would like to educate about other breeds as well but I haven't had or researched them like I have APBTs. :)
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: Randee November 26, 2007, 09:44:09 AM
caine is very very very noticeable a pb, so people simply shy away.  but, we have had people pull kids away from us at the sight of him.  regardless of the fact he LOVESSSSSSSSSS kids.  we don't even get a chance.
Hi
Randee here...I'm not really commenting on your post.  It's the video attached to you post that taught me something about dogs.

Never in my life would I ever have imagined seeing a dog that size run away from something so small.  All this time, I thought, with dogs, size was all the more reason to fear.

Thanks for the laugh and enlightenment.
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 10, 2008, 08:33:52 AM
 :D
: Re: American pitbulls and other bully breeds
: KJUNMAMI May 10, 2008, 08:43:19 AM
True, but it seems there are breeds 'prone' to certain tendencies and take a firmer type of training than others. I don't know the person walking the pitbull or one that is running loose has been raised properly, do I? I've known only 1 personally in my life and she was a sweetheart indeed but she belonged to a friend of mine and I knew her history etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to run up and love on any stray dog, regardless of the breed but I'm not gonna lie and say I'm not more cautious around some. There are some breeds you don't hear all the horror stories about and I do believe theres a reason behind it. It's not the dogs fault of course, but the irresponsible people who raise them for inappropriate things. Some dogs are more prone to go after someone and some are prone to handle it differently, that's all. A lot of people pick certain breeds for certain reasons, I know I did, and what I soley based my decision on.

I'm not against all pitbulls, but I don't think their reputation will ever be a good one to be honest. It's against the law to even own them some places. But I do realize any dog can be bred wrong and raised wrong,  I'm not being ignorant. Hubby was attacked by a lab mix when he was a kid and never liked dogs after that. Thankfully he loves ours.




I just wanted to give you guys a link to show research done to show that just because you hear more about them doesn't mean there is a reason to be afraid, unfortunatly the media is not fair when reporting just click on this link and read for yourself...
http://animalfarmfoundation.org/topic.php?id=5&topic=96
http://animalfarmfoundation.org/item.php?id=5&topic=96&item=348

you may have to copy and paste...

also here is the site of the researchers who published this information.
http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/



Animalfarmfoud ation.org

Please check them out these sites because they provide unbiased true researched info from trainers, doctors,animal behavior institutes and the temperment test society instead of media reports, uneducated prejudice people, or people who just no no better than what they hear.

I hope this site helps!