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Mountain Dogs => Bernese Mountain Dog Discussions => : SadieA September 06, 2007, 04:24:43 PM

: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: SadieA September 06, 2007, 04:24:43 PM
I just brought home my new puppy last week, and I just love him! I've never had a Berner before- I grew up with a whole string of Goldens. But he is such a good boy, and already not peeing in his crate at night, which makes me happy even though I have to take him out several times a night. I do have a few concerns, though, although I think the answer to all of them may be "he's just a puppy, give it time!"

Firstly, he's not a good leash-walker. I don't try to take him for long walks or anything, but he hates to leave the house. I have to carry him down the street a ways, and even then, he often just sits down and won't budge, until we turn around and then he's happy to trot right back home. He whines and cries, and just refuses to walk. He really hates his collar, which I think might be a part of the problem. It's still new to him of course, but I got a harness and put it on him today to try out. I got two, actually, and one was a halti harness, which is what I wanted, but I could only find a medium (I live in France) at the store nearby, and, well, maybe we'll try that again next week or so when I'm sure he'll have gained another 20 pounds! ha. Anyway, should I worry about trying to make him a better walker, or just figure that it will come with time?

Also, he's quite a little biter when he gets riled up, and I've not had a lot of success getting him to stop. I would like to try spraying him with water, but am afraid that will make him scared of water, and therefore more difficult to bathe?

Lastly, we've got three flights of stairs into our house. At this point, he weights only (only??) 21 pounds or so, at eight weeks. But of course, soon I won't be able to carry him. He can handle going up one flight of stairs already and so I'm sure that will be no problem. Should I try to find a small staircase for him to practice going down, or is it too dangerous for his joints at this age?

Thanks!

: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: SadieA September 06, 2007, 04:29:41 PM
Oh! one other thing. Somehow, Sammy stepped in a big wad of gum, and it is all smushed up in the fur between his pads on one of his back feet. I tried to carefully cut it out, but it's really in there good, stuck to some skin, and he was wriggley and I was afraid I'd nick him if I kept going after it. Doesn't seem to bother him a bit- any advice for getting it out, or should I just wait for it to work its way off?
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: SadieA September 06, 2007, 05:14:31 PM
here are a few more pictures!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: schelmischekitty September 06, 2007, 05:32:23 PM
omg!!  he's SO cute!!  leash walking, yeah, he's a puppy it'll get better with time!  axle did the SAME thing when he was a puppy about going straight home with no problem but acted like i was killing him going away from the house.  it'll get better with time.

it's GREAT that he's crate training already!  don't be surprised if he does start going in it though.  axle had no accidents in the house for the first few weeks...  until he got comfortable around us lol.  then the fight to potty train started!

the water bottle works good, we also use a "settle" command.  when the dogs get too worked up, i get them into a down and tell them "settle" which basically means that it's time to calm down, and that they have to relax for a few minutes before we play again.  later on, it works great for when you go to the vets office, etc, and they get too worked up over one thing or another also because you can give them the "settle" command and they relax right away.

as far as the gum...  hm.  i'm not sure.  i'm sure vinegar or something acidic would help to get it out.  vinegar gets dermabond (liquid stitches) off, so i'm sure if you put it on there, let it set for a few minutes (making sure your pupper doesn't eat it) and then get a small comb and work it out and then use shampoo i would think it would come at least mostly out.  your baby is too cute, so keep the pictures coming!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: Ali September 06, 2007, 06:50:06 PM
I have to second the Peanut butter for gum - it works like a champ. My daughter got gum all smooshed in her bangs when she was 4, and I was afraid we'd have to chop 'em all off. The peanut butter was a miracle. And, as mentioned, Sammy will LOVE licking his foot afterwards!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: Pyr Heaven September 06, 2007, 06:56:52 PM
Oh my gosh! Is he cute or what!?!!

The biting, the not wanting to walk on a leash....all puppy behavior.

Miles does the same thing. He is a biter for sure. I've tried everything including the spray bottle. It worked the first few times, but now he likes when I spray him!!! haha
For biting, I've now started time outs in the bathroom with the door closed. Just for like 45 seconds to a minute...other wise he gets comfortable. hahaha

Also, leash walking is impossible with him right now. If he doesn't wanna go, he will hold his ground (and then I have to pick him up..which also won't be happening very long!)

Good luck with Sammy! He is absolutely ADORABLE!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: kathryn September 06, 2007, 07:33:11 PM
That is one cute puppy.  Congrats on your new guy and welcome to the site. 

Is there anyway that you could maybe cover the stairs with a carpet covered wood to make a ramp on the stairs?  I know it would be a pita but if you even had a narrow piece that you could put down that was only wide enough for him to walk on that might help. 
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: People Whisperer September 06, 2007, 07:44:59 PM
I second Peanut Butter and NO stairs  ;)

As for walks...give him some time and use lots of treats to reinforce his best effords!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: MagicM3 September 06, 2007, 11:38:12 PM
Cute is not even close to him is way beyond cute. ;D
I also say peanutbutter works like magic on fur or hair.

The bitting and walking is a puppy thing but there are things you can do now to make things easier.

Try using a leash attached to you around the house,one room to another,always offering treats,kibble from his normal food worls great at this age.if he balks still drop a piece in front of him and then a few more steps in front of him,after all it seems to move and it's yummy.

The biting,what always seemed to work for me at that age is two things.which ever one works best and seems to get him to understand.
1.if he bites yell out like he really hurt you.Puppies do it to eachother all the time.and usually when one yelps loudly,they are let go of ,at least temporarly,The other is to calmly remove your body part saying no teeth, or no bite or simply no,whatever you are most comfortable with.and then provide something he can bite and chew and tear into.
Redirect to something he can do.

A really great book at this age is *Mother Knows Best* by Carol Lea Benjamin.she also has one called *Dog Training in 10 Minutes* with lots of good tips.
She makes it simple,and things you can do everyday around the house.that become normal activity for you and your new fur kid and of course FUN

Keep sending updates and of course more pictures.
Tricia and the fur kids

: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: bigdogs@5501 September 07, 2007, 12:55:45 AM
You got a lot of good advice- not much I can add except more pictures please- what a cutie he is...
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: sc.trojans September 07, 2007, 01:38:45 AM

Congratulation s on your new puppy!  Are you aware of the Berner-L on Yahoo Groups?  I recommend you join since you can receive a lot of breed specific info to help with your questions.  I run a Berner list that is diet and natural rearing focused, so if you consider a natural diet and rearing, consider joining NaturalBerners too.

I disagree with others here about the walking in that you have a very sensitive breed and depending on the lines he comes from, may be very shy. If you are seeing shyness issues and insecurity, that is different than not being good on a leash.  Not good on a leash means twisting, and fighting the leash control, perhaps sitting down.
But when you describe whining, crying, and wanting to run home - that is fear and needs to be addressed asap.  Socializing your puppy properly - which means getting out to the appropriate level of stimulus - people, places, things - without overhelming him. Overwhelming him is called flooding and will backfire. Introducing him to people of all shapes, sizes, color, facial hair etc is valuable - but don't let crowds hoard him or scare him. This will reinforce fear.

You don't say more about the environment, but it sounds like there may be something that has really scared him around your home. Are there loud cars, sounds? Other animals? Anything that is causing him to not want to venture out, but instead head home? If so, you need to counter condition him to these things very slowly and gradually - never force him to face his fear.  Use food and high value treats to make scary situations positive and change his mental association.

The biting is natural of course and at this time you want to ensure he learns proper bite inhibition. The best trainer of bite inhibition in my view is Ian Dunbar. If you don't have his book "Before and After you get your Puppy" - I highly recommend it right now and it will help you immensely with socializing and teaching bite inhibition. The last thing you want to do is squirt him with water - your instincts are correct.  I work in Berner rescue and just had a 2 year old for 7 months for rehabilitation - he was terrified of water bottles, hoses, and baths. It was very clear what was done to him.  The biggest reason not to use an aversive like that however is that it is designed to quickly grab his attention and negatively stop the behavior. It never shows him what TO DO and HOW to use his mouth however.  Too many dogs in the U.S. are always punished as puppies like this for using their mouth, never develop bite inhibition by knowing how strong their mouth is, and then end up hurting someone or something later in life.

The goal is to have him learn that he cant use his teeth on human skin, but that he can use it on appropriate toys and bones.  You want him to exercise his mouth this way so he gets really adept and learning the power of it and how to use it properly.  When he bites, yell ouch and turn your back on him, ending any play or attention he was getting. Most Berners are sensitive to this and quickly learn that doing that ends their fun. If he still is attacky and bitey, then you need to remove him and separate yourself in another room.  You should also always have a toy handy and replace anything he puts his teeth on inappropriatel y with the toy - by consistently trading with him, he learns what he gets to sink his teeth into.

Hope that helps, but I strongly recommend the Ian Dunbar book......
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: lins_saving_grace September 07, 2007, 03:25:02 PM
He is so flippin' cute!!!!!!!  Congrats!!! 
i saw one of these guys at the vet last week.  they are such nice looking dogs.
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: Pyr Heaven September 07, 2007, 03:55:03 PM
I think you have to know the dog before you use a squirt bottle.

If the dog is already skittish and afraid of little things, then you would probably not use a squirt bottle. Many other techniques would probably work better and more easily on a dog with this type of personality.

Miles, on the other hand is not that type of dog. The first couple times I used the squirt bottle he stopped in his tracks....but now...he LIKES being squirted. hahaha He's not afraid of ANYTHING.

P.S. Nothing stops this little guy. I hope Sammy is better with this than Miles is!!!!

: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: sc.trojans September 07, 2007, 10:37:17 PM
Thats not true at all....a dog does not have to be beaten with a bottle to fear the aversive. That is the definition of aversives. It is designed to startle and can absolutely damage a sensitive dog.  The dog I mentioned rehabilitating had never been physically hit or beaten - but was an EXTREMELY fearful dog.  He was terrified of getting in and out of a car - not because he was afraid of the car itself, or even the motion - loved it once he got in - but was afraid of being handled in and out because he was grabbed roughly....we worked hard to overcome that.

I can show you countless dogs who have issues with startling aversives used.  Dogs who become noise sensitive and jump and startle at various sounds because sound aversives were used. This dog feared baths, hoses and bottles because he was sprayed and squirted when misbehaving - it was punishment.  He was afraid of shooting water anywhere - even fountains.  He certainly wasn't beaten by a fountain :)

Using a squirt bottle may be common - and may be as old as many wives tales, but it doesn't mean it isn't damaging and cant do irreparable harm. It is by definition punishment - and punishment is not constructive learning. Dogs who do not respond well to negative punishment will process and associate the punishment, not the lesson. The studies on this are extensive and available for anyone interested.

Think about it this way:  do we ever punish a small child for something we haven't first taught?  If we spanked a child for pooping in his diaper, would we expect the proper behavior? Or just create a fearful child afraid of getting spanked?  To use a squirt bottle on a puppy is to suggest going straight to punishment before any constructive learning has taken place. Punishment only works as a deterrent once learning has occurrred.
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: jagersmom September 08, 2007, 02:04:21 AM
I know I've used a squirt bottle on my cats and dog. Of course at first it was correcting them. The cat would be removed from the kitchen table about 100 times and told "NO" before the water bottle was introducted. Now the little fur-devil loves the water bottle! I can't win with this beast. Jager's very good after the water bottle. He started chewing on furniture and all I'd have to say is "Jager do I need to get the bottle?" and he'd stop and pick up a toy. The bottle is empty but with the kitten it's now a toy not correction. Yes he still goes on the table and yes I still take him off. Little hellion! Lord knows why Jager is terrified of paper bags though?!

I have to agree that nipping and leash issues Jager grew out of. Now he can't wait for the leash to be picked up. He starts prancing by the door when he sees it.

Btw, you have an adorable fur-baby!!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: CrazyLoveRosie September 08, 2007, 05:14:22 AM
To get gum out, baby oil will work. I've never tried peanut butter, but I guess it has an oiliness to it similar to baby oil.

Sammy is adorable!

Three flights of stairs is quite a lot, for a puppy and even for an adult. I'm assuming there's no elevator then? As a puppy, a lot of joint stress is not recommended, especially when they're still developing and growing. We had Rosie at our 4th floor apartment for a couple days before moving to a house and she flew down those stairs so fast because of all that downward momentum that they just don't have brakes for.
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: SadieA September 08, 2007, 09:11:51 AM
Thank you all so much for all the advice! I am planning to try some  peanut butter or baby oil on the gum today, and will let you know if it works! In the meantime, Sammy had his first day of puppy school yesterday, and he had a great time. He's getting pretty reliable at "sit", but not so much at "come" and "down." I'll keep working on them with him, though, as I'd like him to make a bit of progress this week! I think he was the youngest puppy at puppy school, so he was definitely a little behind the curve (and then there's the whole issue of his owner struggling a bit in a puppy class conducted in French!) but he had fun playing with all the other puppies, until he got hot and had to crawl under some of the agility ramps into the shade. I made sure to give him lots of water, and wetted down his head a bit, but boy did he tire himself out. I could barely get him to do anything the rest of the day, and took advantage of his laziness to practice being brushed a bit.

As for the stairs, I'll keep carrying him for as long as I can, and fortunately, this walk-up apartment is temporary- we'll just be here for a year, and then back to the states. So then I'll be able to  find something a little more  navigable for a large dog! I think the neighborhood will be sad to see him leave- Sammy gets LOTS of attention out in the streets! Some people recognize him as a Bouvier Bernois, which is what he is (in French) but a lot of people think he is a St. Bernard. And  no one fails to comment on his large "pattes!" He is impressively good with all the attention, and seems to not be skittish around strangers at all, which I am very glad to see. I am excited for him to get bigger and stronger and better-behaved, then we can take him down to the Pyrenees mountains, which are very close, and do some very gentle  hiking with him!

: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: jagersmom September 08, 2007, 03:25:44 PM
We had Rosie at our 4th floor apartment for a couple days before moving to a house and she flew down those stairs so fast because of all that downward momentum that they just don't have brakes for.

LOL That would have been fun to watch!

We only have 2 steps in our house. One into the office and one out back. Jager would go nose first off them for not paying attention where he was walking. Needless to say, I can't really say anything about the stairs since we don't have any. I can say peanut butter or baby oil should work.

As far as bigger and stronger, you'll see eyes popping out of the heads "He's huge!! WOW he's big!" I just smile and say "Yes yes he is" but you can make up your own reply lol.

He is adorable though!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: GoldenPyrs September 09, 2007, 07:59:11 AM
Aww, welcome!  Sammy is so cute!  I met a bunch of Berners at a dog show last winter and they were just wonderful.  I'm mom to Daisy our 8 y/o Golden/LabX, Cassie our 2 y/o Pyr/? X and our Sammy is a 5-6 y/o Great Pyrenees.  Congratulation s on your new addition!   ;D
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: AnnaCrew September 16, 2007, 05:38:05 PM
Hi! Congratulation s on your beautiful pup!
The chewing gum is not a big deal, but in my opinion, stairs is. Carry please as long as you can because the damage can be created in early age for the whole life. Climbing up as I know is not so bad, but just for few steps, but climbing down puts to much weight on his joints so it is strong no-no. I see, you do not have much choise at present so carrying him is the only  solution.

About the walks. Try to imagine life of this pup - he was comfy and safe under mother's wing and probably had not had used to outside world much. So strets, cars, smells - all seems completely new and yes, scary, so try to take him just out at the doorstep now, let him to get used to @his@ territory and then expand it.

On top of that, puppies usually have they scary periods, I do not remember, but probably somewhere at 12 -14 weeks or so, so do not be surprised, if he gets scared again - that will be the time when he will grow out of his puppy skin and will recgnize himself as a dog.

If it helps to you, here is my story; I needed to take my complete country pup at 15 weeks of age to the city for two weeks - he was scared to death and it took 3 days to get him do his business outside (before he was completely housebroken already, but now he dashed back and did it all on the newspaper in the hall), and walking along the main street was like worse torture for him! So many cars, noises, smells... After two weeks in city he was not keen to leave! And it does not affected his nerves and temperament at all - he has nerves of the steal and nothing can scary him - he just loks there with curiositylike @is there coming another nice surprise specially for my peasure?@ :D

Puppy class is great for socialization reasons first of all, and it gives you good training too. As you may know, menthal stimulation can wear dog even more than physical excercises so really give him a rest after the classes. So an hour in class replaces a long walk and a lot of playing at home. Keep it in mind - if you have not much time for a walk and games, a bit longer training session even at home would replace it.

Do not worry about lash manners and niping - it is typical puppy beheivior and later will improve with a minimum of training.

With here or come command try to be always positive, and keep a treat as a revard for coming - never let you be upset as there will be not 100% response for a long time, and never run after a pup to catch it - always run away from him - I bet you know it already, but it is so easy to forget it when pup is running away. Call him, get his attention and then run away - he will follow you to catch you, and that is the time for the prise!
Good luck and I'm so envious - I must wait for my pup until Christmas just to be born! And then all the waiting to take him home! OMG! And you aleady have all the fun now!!! Lucky you!



 
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: SadieA September 16, 2007, 05:49:01 PM
Thank you for all the advice! Even just after two weeks at his new home, I see a major change in Sammy's willingness to go out for walks. He still doesn't want to go out all morning or anything, but he's much less hesitant to leave the house, and he really enjoys being out in the streets- so much to smell! So many people who love him! So many nasty little things to try to eat if Sadie stops looking for even a second!

As for the stairs, I am  definitely planning to carry him for as long as I possibly can. Unfortunately, this may only be a few more months, but perhaps I'll get stronger as I continue to carry an ever-heavier pup! It's like a weight program that grows with me as I get stronger!

: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: dohertyswissy September 16, 2007, 06:00:04 PM
Sammy is SOOOO cute!!  As you can see by the pic in my avatar, I'm Mom to a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, which is essentially the short-haired version of the Bernese Mountain Dog.  Lots of people ask me if he is a Bernese, as they are more well known than the Swissy.   :)

I'm glad to hear that Sammy is getting more used to being on lead.  As everyone has said, that is typical for a puppy.  Ranger did the same thing Sammy did.  Sat down and would NOT move.  Stubborn little things!!  Sounds like Sammy is really liking the walks now and probably just isn't a morning dog, which I can't blame him.   :D  Good for him! 

As far as mouthing, nipping is a puppy behavior, but mouthing is something that will continue with Berners and Swissys.  Ranger will be 3 in November and will be mouthy on occassion.  He gets all excited when I rub his belly and will be mouthy, so I give him a firm "No," and stopping rubbing the belly.  He gets the picture that mouthing isn't gonna get him a darn thing, especially the belly rub he wants.  Haha!  So, he stops pretty quickly these days.

Congrats on your puppy and keep those pictures coming!  It is so neat to look at Berners and see them as long-haired versions of my big guy!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: SadieA September 16, 2007, 06:17:58 PM
here's a few more pics, from puppy class!
: Re: Welcome Sammy, my new puppy!
: CrazyLoveRosie September 16, 2007, 11:51:49 PM
Love that picture of him trying to fit himself into that tiny space underneath the bridge. It looks like a fun time at puppy school.