Big Paws Only Dog Forums
BPO Food Forum => Food Discussion & Information => : Edwpang September 24, 2007, 01:39:37 PM
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Butter was neutered 2 months ago at 6 month old. After the proceture, when I took Butter from vet, the clerk's comments were Butter was so thin, but the vet mentioned he was slim, and he could some more weight after the neuter. Everyting was fine and his recovery was fast. But he almost stops growing. He was 47 lbs at 6 months, and now @ 8 month he is only 49-50lbs, and kind of more inactive. Everyone's comment was your dog was so skinny or he looked more skinny. We feed him Canidae All life stages 1x3 cups a day far more than the recommended amount of 1-2 cups, and he is hungry all the time. His stool is mostly firm(2-3 times a day), though he has runny poo 1-2 times a month. I am considering switching food. Is it OK to switch to high protein food like Orijen or EVO at this stage?
BTW, he has yellowish discharge in his eye recently. Is it normal?
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My puppy was having yellowish eye discharge too, and it seems to have improved with eyedrops the vet gave us to treat conjunctivitis . Not sure if your pup has the same thing, but the eyedrops were pretty easy to come by, so it might be worth a shot if the discharge isn't clearing up on its own.
I don't know about the weight thing, though. Good luck!
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Miles was ALWAYS hungry on Canidae too no matter how much I fed him. I guess even premium foods don't work for all dogs.
He would also have pretty soft stool. I would definitely recommend switching foods. Since Miles is still only 3 months old, I am feeding him Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed puppy formula. We aren't completely finished switching but he already seems to be alot less hungry. He'll actually leave food in his bowl and save it for later whereas with the Canidae, Miles would gobble all the food down and wait for more. haha
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SadieA and Pyr Heaven Thanks a lot for your reply.
Add some picture showing his thinness.
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He looks fine to me. I stole this from wikipedia:
"There are currently no size classification s for the Goldendoodle. It is difficult for a hybrid litter to "breed true"; that is, it is difficult to know exactly what size a Goldendoodle will grow to as an adult, regardless of parental size. However, Goldendoodle sizes can vary if they are standard or mini. A standard Goldendoodle is the result of crossbreeding with a standard-sized Poodle. A standard male Goldendoodle can range in height from 21 to 24 inches (54 to 62 cm), and weigh 55 to 85 pounds (25 to 39 kg). A standard female Goldendoodle can range in height from 20 to 22.5 inches (51 to 58 cm), and weigh 45 to 65 pounds (21 to 29 kg). Goldendoodles can also result from a female golden retriever and a male miniature or toy poodle (both via artificial insemination). Such Goldendoodles can range in height from 13 to 21 inches (33 to 53 cm), and weigh 25 to 45 pounds (11 to 20.5 kg). Goldendoodles also have different coat types. They can range from curly, wavy, or straight depending on its genes. Goldendoodles can have different colors, depending on the poodle genes passed onto the pup. However, Goldendoodles can be white, blonde, tan, cafe, chocolate, red, black, silver, parti, phantom, or a mix. A mix of colors can come from the same litter."
Butter looks to have the more slender shape of a poodle than the robust physique of a golden. He may just have a naturally high metabolism.
If you are sure it's the kibble causing his monthly episode of diarrhea and not treats he may be getting like yogurt/cheese/pigs ears/bones to chew on etc etc I would change.
I feed Canidae Chicken and Rice to 2 of my pups. I don't really go by the feeding guidelines on the back. It lists puppies to 6 months then jumps to adults. Giant/large breeds are still puppies way past 6 months so I don't feed the adult portions until much later. So don't stress about that extra cup you're giving him. Try giving him an extra cup on top of that if you feel he is too ribby. I would split up the kibble to a breakfast and a dinner though.
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I know that he should slimer than a retriever, I am just not comfortable with the fact he only gains about 2 lbs over 2 month+ period.
"When you run your hands along his sides can you just barely feel his ribs?"
I should say even when he walks or or sits, I can see his ribs.
As for his activity level, he used to play longer with fetch, now it seems less interested in it. He usually just lay on the floor except during dinner time, he'd walk around in the kitchen hoping he can get something to eat...
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I agree for a puppy you feed the amount necessary to maintain a good weight- some you feed more and some you feed less. The instructions on the bag are guidelines only. My puppies are actually free fed kibble and there is not a fat puppy on the place.
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he's so gorgeous! sorry had to get that out ;) i love the way he looks! i agree with everyone that the bag isn't always right. i never look at that, because i always work myself into a worry, even if my dogs are fine. he's a little out of proportion right now with those long legs. i'm sure that ads to the "skinny" look, too. anywho, everybody has given great advice, but i had to drool over your gorgeous boy!
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FXgirl, Holly, schelmischekit ty: Thanks a lot for your great advices. :) I'll feed 1 more cup per day to butter. It seems I have been underfeeding him all along. :-[
BTW, we have always been feeding him 3 times a day since he was 12 weeks old, no need to reduce to twice per day, right?
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Mine have always kind of "told" me when it's time to go to just two meals per day. That is, at some point (different age for each pup) they start being less and less interested in their midday meal, and I start shrinking it a little at a time until they no longer get it at all.
For Butter, the more the better. I just cannot imagine how will Butter react if I skip one meal. Once, he was fed twice within a very short time, he still act as if he hadn't eaten for days. :o
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First of all, Butter is simply adorable!! I wish I could give big smooches to his fuzzy face.
I agree with everyone, feed him as much as he wants to eat. He is still a puppy and he is still growing - probably faster than his body can metabolize the food. That would explain why he is not as active - if he's not getting enough food, he's not generating enough energy.
However, because his stools are loose, too I would definitely take a stool sample to the vet and ask them to test it for worms. Hook worms or round worms can definitely lead to weight loss (or no weight gain) and lethargy. It's best to rule it out - and very easy to fix if that's what it is (if you catch them early enough).
As for feeding him three times a day... I don't know anyone that feeds their dogs three times a day (although I'm sure several people on here will message back saying they do). I think twice is enough, but I haven't had the pleasure of owning a giganto breed yet - just big. I guess that's up to you and how much poop you want Butter to generate in one day.
Good luck and you better post lots more pictures.
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Is it OK to switch to high protein food like Orijen or EVO at this stage?
I don't know if this is still an issue in large breeds, but I know for a while the trend was to watch high protein in large breed puppies. Don't want those joints, muscles, bones developing faster than he's really growing. Another thing to remember is that just like us, fat makes us gain weight, not protein. It's the same for my big hooved friends. To put weight on, I add fat, not protein, to my horses diet. I have a horse I'm putting weight on now and switched to a feed with high fat, lower protein. But, in a young animal, you want to make sure they're getting enough protein for bones, muscle, joint development. Just a thought...
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Thanks your guys for your advice and compliment about Butter. What I'll do next will be checking for worms(though he has been dewormed twice this) and giving Canidae a month with 4 cups a day, if butter is still not gaining weight, I'll switch to something else.
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regular wormer will not treat hook / whip worms. a regular test will also not catch them typically. we had a bout with the both of them and it was horrid, but within a weekend they went from having the poohs to bloody runs to being extremely thin and coming close to dying. we didn't catch it until it was a bad case, though. our vet recommended the test when axle stopped eating and was drinking too much.
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I routinely worm at least once a year with the 3 days of Panacur to be sure that whips and hooks don't sneak up on my dogs. It frequently doesn't show up on fecal. And regular wormer does not prevent it nor does Interceptor. Some vets will routinely worm a thin dog for whip/hook regardless of the stool. It is very safe and eliminates one problem with a thin dog.
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we used the panacur, too. it works great!
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schelmischekit ty, thanks a lot for your comments. I'll talk with Butter about this.
BTW, have you heard about SENTINEL? This is Butter's vet gave for deworming.
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I increased Butter's food by 1 cup/day to 4 cups a few days ago. His poo almost doubled, and softer than before. So I decrease to 3 1/2 cups a days. The poo is getting better...
As for stool testing, I have been collecting stool samples with vet provided container for a couple of days, will be send back to vet tomorrow. BTW, the price for testing stool is CAN$39.75 tax included. Is it expensive?
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Holly, thank a lot for your quick reply. :)
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Update: After feeding 1 cup more for a week, Butter has gained about 1 pound @ 51 lbs from 49-50 lbs 8 days ago, and his ribs is less visible. :)
Thanks everyone for your helpful comments.
BTW, I just sent the stool sample to the vet after 1 week's poo collection.