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Messages - sc.trojans

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16
General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws / Re: Cane Corso??
« on: July 04, 2009, 10:16:56 pm »

As a general rule, anyone who would ship a dog to you, sight unseen without really knowing where they are sending this pup, is not reputable and in it just for the money.  THEY don't know if they are sending to a testing lab, or true loving owner in the end.

So I would start with the Cane Corso club and Rescue - those are your best sources for referral, although no guarantee all are reputable (every club has non-reputable that they can't get rid of).

http://www.canecorso.org/

Rescue is your best option since those who rescue, know who is doing what, and who's dogs they are taking in - so they often know the most reputable out there.  And you could consider a rescue first anyway.....

17

It's too late - not to mention not a good idea.  He is potty trained now and by definition - it means just that.  You are confusing the heck out of him and it often backfires in several ways so I don't recommend proceeding on this path.

When I foster dogs, I always know the puppymill dogs since they have never been on grass.  Dogs that have been trained to go on hard surface (or those who had no choice) are often a nightmare to live with....these dogs will even walk down the sidewalks and just go in the middle of the sidewalks (illegal here where I live).

The biggest reason however, is that cement is highly porous - and absorbs urine like nothing else.  There is no sanitizing cement if you speak with cement/concrete experts.  It is not sanitary or advisable as a result.  If he were regularly going on cement, it would take no less than 1 month to stink to high heaven.

I recommend you re-surface the dog run to make it dog friendly and something a dog would want to use - smooth pea gravel over dirt is often used and accepted by dogs......bark, as long as the dog is not interested in eating it and it is not a chemical laced or cocoa bark is also effective.  All materials should be on dirt however....not on cement to be effective.

You could TRY artificial grass on the cement....but without some kind of attracting enzymes, he may not take to it and this still won't be sanitary.

And, if there is any talking you both out of it - dogs and grass go together like cats and catnip.  I could never deny my dogs their grass - they roll in it, rely on its smell, eat it at times.....and they kill the heck out of it for sure.  So once ever two or three months, hubby and I buy a few pieces of sod and patch the pee spots.......th e more often you do it, the easier it is.....and we have trained them to go in just a few places (one is usually not enough) so on the side of the house, by the air conditioners, its all pea gravel, and they pee there first thing in the a.m. and last thing at night when sent out to do it...or when they are on the side of the yard.....at the other end of the yard, they are trained to go in a particular grass area, to keep it confined....an d will never go where they like to chew on bones, eat, or sleep....this is natural.....so it is not a lot of work in the end.  Something to consider if it can work for you.

Hope that helps.....


18
Breeding Questions & Information / Re: Why oh Why
« on: February 09, 2009, 06:35:17 pm »
There is an excellant software available in which you can calculate the co-efficient variance in your breeding program which will tell you just how inbred your dogs are. 

I can't speak for other breeds, but in my breed the best breeders always provide a pedigree with the inbreeding coefficient. For novice buyers, they educate on the coefficient and what it means (unfortunately, most novice buyers don't first learn on their own what is considered acceptable vs. not which is needed in order to evaluate).

Some breeds are in better shape than others, but in mine, I wouldn't touch a half brother/sister scenario - I have not seen anything but shorter lifespan come from it in my breed and can't find a  great case example to point to that will justify it.  There is certainly less control with outcrosses as has been noted, but in breeds as dire as mine, it is deemed necessary to start building a wider immune response, which has become far too narrow today.  As just one example, my breeder has phenomenal longevity in her line, until she linebred trying to capitalize on that great longevity - the production from that linebreeding just passed away at 8.5 years, while their mom is still alive at 12 and maintaining that longevity.  I am just not seeing good results but watching closely.

As an aside, my current girl has linebreeding on each side of her pedigree - 5th generation in on the sire side, and 3rd generation in on the dam side - but the sire and dam don't have a single dog in common in over 12 generations!  Now THAT'S an outcross :)  Time will tell whether it helps or hurts my girl so I will keep you posted......

19
Breeding Questions & Information / Re: Why oh Why
« on: February 08, 2009, 05:23:48 pm »
I and THEY SHARE THE SAME FATHER does anyone else see a HUGE problem with this?! 



Yes, I do!  By tradition, breeders have considered distantly related crosses to be Linebred while close-up crosses were Inbred.  Line breeding is a long standing common practice - and in reality, all purebred dogs were inbred originally, working outward to linebred.  Many geneticists and scientists studying canine disease today view linebreeding as a tactic that has reached its limit and served its purpose.  The health of our purebred dogs today is lower than ever and the bottleneck that linebreeding can create may not be serving the future of our breeds at this point - only time will tell.

Just to clarify linebreeding and inbreeding - lnbreeding is typically regarded as the breeding of two closely related dogs. Father to Daughter, Mother to Son, Half Brother to Half Sister, and Full Brother to Full Sister are all inbred breedings. Linebreeding is a classification that can be appropriately applied to more distant relations such as uncle and niece and 2nd cousins etc.  I do not consider the situation you are looking at to even qualify as "linebreeding".  It is too close for my comfort and I do not see any health benefits arising from such breedings - what I do see is consistent type, if that matters to you.

20
Old English Mastiff Discussions / Re: Limping -help!
« on: February 02, 2009, 05:34:53 pm »

Given what you describe, he could have medial shoulder laxity:

http://www.vetsportsmedicine.com/resourceCenter/documents/VOSMNwstrFallFINAL11.20.08.pdf

But OCD of the shoulder should also be ruled out, especially given his age

You need to go to an orthopedic specialist for a valid diagnosis.  A shoulder abduction test can be done by a qualified orthopedist, but your regular vet will not be equipped (and has not been schooled in this or other diagnostic measures).  X-rays could reveal OCD, but wont detect medial instability.  If the shoulder abduction test is not conclusive, then an MRI is usually the only other definitive tool.

The OFA (panel of radiologists) grades shoulders and the shoulder joint and this is a good route to go for the cost, relative to a lot of testing by local practioners - you get a 3 panel assessment (3 opinions) for the cost and so its a good deal.

21
General Board for Big Dogs with Big Paws / Re: Protein Powder?
« on: January 26, 2009, 04:01:28 pm »

I can't imagine why this would be necessary.  If more protein is needed, simply feed meat or eggs which would be much better for them and more biologically appropriate than a powder.  Without knowing specifically which product and what the ingredients are that you're thinking of however, it is hard to comment further. I assume this is a human product - designed for humans who are not eating a lot of meat.  Is this accurate?

22
FAQs about puppies / Re: Dominance
« on: January 26, 2009, 12:00:42 pm »
I applaud you for recognizing the behavior for what it is - so many are not aware of what a "body standover" is and means.

According to most behaviorists I have spoken to, including Patricia McConnell, a body standover is one of THE most offensive gestures in the canine world.  Dogs are individuals and how each one responds to offensive acts by others varies and runs the gamut, but for the dog who takes this for the status seeking motive that it is, it could spell big trouble and is best to always prevent it.  One of my girls, Gracie is a great example of a sweet natured and dog social dog but there are two things she will NOT tolerate:  being mounted or taking a body standover.

The best thing you can do is to prevent the set-up and never allow him to cock his head over the neck/back of another - either by pulling him back with the leash, or taking him by the collar (if offleash) and gently turning him away while teaching a "cue" such as "leave it", "off", or "look at me".  Once he knows the cue, you should be able to verbally redirect him.  To best teach the cue, use high reward food treats to lure him off of things while saying the cue word. 

My dogs all know "look at me" for example and I find this to be the single best command we have.  It is super easy to teach - every time my dog looks at me, I clicked and treated.  After several times of looking at me, and recognizing the pattern that "I get a reward when I look at her" - I started saying the cue "look at me" and re-inforced it.  It took no time for them to learn the cue and now I can control any distraction with the cue or prevent my girls from focusing on a dog with crude social skills (who is about to do something offensive and for which I am trying to avoid having anyone get offended).

If you start now, you should have no trouble teaching this command and controlling the status seeking.  Last case scenario, getting yelled at by dogs he offends may be the best teaching as well, as long as no one means harm and is focused on just verbally discplining.

23

Just a classic backyard breeder....... ...with every red flag and BYB indicator there is.  Such a shame and sites like this one are always hard for me to look at, but I could post 50 more just like them unfortunately.

The sickest part of the entire breeding practice in this case is she is breeding without any genetic research or knowledge of what she is mixing, no health certifications from any of the breeds, and she is breeding underage dogs. I noticed her new Saint is being bred at just over a year of age - while he is not yet full grown, and still a baby - completely unethical.

Ugh!

24

Either "slipped hocks" or hock laxity most likely - both of which will cause degeneration and arthritis over time.

Clicking is not normal and should never be ignored - definitely time for x-rays.  I just placed a foster boy who had horrible slipped hocks (puppymill dog purchased from a petstore) - the hock popped forward so badly it was amazing he could walk - and the clicking had been going on for so long that he had a partially torn tendon - a common outcome of hock laxity and exertion.  We did surgery on him and his new forever family has been great about doing rehab.  I had him fitted for a hock brace for him to wear on walks etc to stabilize the joint - this is usually all that is needed (and a lot of good joint supplements) to keep things intact.



25

I think it has been well documented that small dogs are the most prone to "warning bites" given that they are small, and feel vulnerable and extra defensive - they tend to get a free pass as a result of causing little harm.

All of the US statistic compiling, and most behaviorists distinguish between bite numbers and bite severity - this is why the pits and rotties take such a beating - they bite less, but when they do, they often kill.

JAVMA came out with a special report on it in 2000:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

And this site is interesting to follow national incidents:

http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/fataldogattacks.html

26
Breeding Questions & Information / Re: Please help
« on: January 16, 2009, 06:13:06 pm »
Hi Juliets - I am happy to hear you are interested in my breed and working to do your homework - always refreshing to hear.  I have been in Berners for a long time, am a member of the national club and my local club, as well as Berner Rescue for Southern California.  I have plenty that I can share on the breed, getting started, and breeders if you're interested.

I can't speak for other breeds, but I can speak for the Bernese community in the U.S. and Canada - and can offer this:  NO reputable breeder charges more for a show dog and I can repeat NOT ONE SINGLE ONE that I could point you to.  The fact is, the best breeders in this breed are trying to breed for the betterment of the breed and many, for top titles - because they do all of the health testing (including hips, elbows, thyroid, eyes and often heart and shoulders as well) which becomes costly, they sell each pup, male or female, show quality or not, for the same price believing they are all worth the same (and aren't they?).  If this doesn't sound like the people you have been speaking to, then you are likely not yet finding the good breeders.

Because these breeders often have wait lists, I am not familiar with any of them giving the top pick or two to a first time buyer - BUT if you were to go to shows, show commitment to learning and seeking mentoring, it is possible if a relationship is established.  Depending on your reasons for wanting to breed, they may or may not want to mentor and work with you.

Bernese Breed Stewards are a great way for referrals - in this breed, the breed stewards know who is having puppies in the next 6 months and who already has them on the ground. They further know pedigrees and dogs firsthand (and very experienced in the breed) and have signed a contract and code of ethics to only refer to those breeders who are complying with the Bernese Code of Ethics for breeding.  The stewards are listed by state on the BMDCA website, but you can contact absolutely any one of them regardless of location.  I highly recommend you contact those stewards who are NOT breeders themselves (and therefore have nothing to gain) and they will be willing to educate on what to look for and breeders to contact.  Feel free to contact me for specific recommendation s on stewards and breeders.

Here are some red flags however to watch out for:  If any of these exist, I would encourage you to walk away:

--They charge a deposit (no reputable breeder in this breed charges money up front and does not need to - its not about the money)

--They charge more for females or show pups (this should be obvious but again, is not about the betterment of the breed)

--They do not do all of the health testing on all dogs - you should be able to review the certifications on both parents, their parents and all of their siblings.

--They are not involved in any breed activities, such as showing, drafting, etc. and as a result do not have any mentors in the community.  All good breeders get their start from other good breeders.

--As a result of the above, they breed exclusively their own dogs.  They have one male they breed to all of their females, regardless of strengths and weaknesses.  The best breeders go outside their own, at least occasionally to find the best mate for their dog, who will best complement their dog.

--They sell directly over the internet, having never met you, and will ship the puppy to you (I don't know a single breeder, over 20 who will do this and the BMDCA does not condone it).  Making initial contact with a breeder over the internet is perfercly appropriate, but they should then be working to get to know you by phone, interviewing you at length, and usually expect you to come and pick up the puppy in person.  I have always flown to pick up my Berners firsthand.

--Another great sign is they show pics of dogs on their website with horrible structure and conformation, but only show the dog from the front, or sitting in a "sloppy sit" position - never properly positioned to see the full structure. They are breeding dogs of poor type but don't know it.

--Use OFFA.org and bernergarde.or g to research pedigrees and health certifications .  The Berner resource makes it very easy to see the backyard breeders and mills.

--Always ask the weight and height of the parents - a good first start at assessing whether the dogs even meet the breed type.  If the male is 80 lbs., walk away because this is not a breeder selecting for proper breed traits and the proper amount of "bone". Eyes should not be round, heads should not be domed, ears should not be set low, the tail should not be "gay" set and look like an Akita arched over the back etc.

A few easy tips: 

When reviewing pedigrees, look for a dog called ARTUR Z LOUCCKE KOTLINY - one of the, if not THE most overbred puppymill dogs and thought to be the backbone of the mill auction business in the U.S. (his owner is THE broker who is credited with establishing the breed in mills and petstores by importing the first dogs from eastern european countries without health certification standards and registries such as Hungary and Russia).  This dog's owner was the focus of the BMDCA and the Newf Club of America's rescue and legislative efforts for several years.

Look for dogs originating from Hungary or Russia as a result - not a good sign.

Is this fitting what you have found?

27

Ok...I don't mean to sound like "downer Debbie" but....I want to share some input here:

Many have mentioned the challenges of raising two puppies and all are valid.  There is a lot of guidance out there on how to best raise two at one time, ensuring separate training (my husband takes one out front, and I take the other out back etc.) and the separation training that is so critical.  Socialize them separately and many of the trainers and breeders I know take one puppy and give to a friend or relative for 1 week in the first three weeks - critical time for separation ability and to help you bond to ONE. The do it with the other one.  My point is there is a lot of work here, but all can be done if done well.....

My concern - and those of every good trainer and breeder I know - is taking two littermates.  I just counseled someone getting Berners, and she wanted two puppies, so I helped her get one from two different breeders with their support (neither reputable breeder would have ever given her two of their litter by the way).  Taking two littermates is widely recognized as a bad idea for the dogs, and more often than not, is a problem for their development.  The litter hierarchy is strong and their first lessons in pack behavior - unless you are a seasoned behaviorist good at assessing rank and temperament, you will likely not select the right two in status and end up with a bully and a submissive dog.  The best thing for low ranking puppies is to get away from the litter where they can potentially blossom into friendly outgoing personalities.  I have seen horribly shy, fearful and submissive dogs who never blossom and live in the corner when around their dominant sibling - so many times I can't count.  Even worse, I have seen several cases where the puppy with less status is a classic "B" dog who after getting bullied by the sibling, needs to bully everything else in order to feel better about himself.

I would consider doing more homework and consulting good behaviorist resources such as Patrica McConnell and Jean Donaldson for the challenges and issues in bringing home two littermates.  You could get lucky, play roulette and end up with a balanced pair - but odds are not in your favor (especially if said breeder is letting YOU pick the puppies, and not doing temperament tests and evaluating the whole litter).

28
Bernese Mountain Dog Discussions / Re: Running with a Berner
« on: January 11, 2009, 12:21:28 pm »
I asked how old his dog was, and then told him how cute it was and made up this completely untrue story about how Sammy got hurt jogging when he was little, and my vet told me that it's not at all safe for puppies to run like that, on a leash, and it was really expensive to treat his injury, etc etc.  That poor puppy. The guy walked away with the dog, at least, and I do hope he'll go online and look up appropriate activities for a puppy!!

Well Done!!!!  I hope he heeded your warning too for the sake of that puppy.

29

Ursa...do you have any chemical / green considerations?

If so, it would have a big impact on your options and choices and you may want to rethink the use of concrete.  If not, stained concrete is very cool and can be done in any style, color and even texture you want. Its not as low maintenance as a lot of people think however.  It requires a lot of chemicals to maintain the color and keep it looking "waxed" or finished. AND it is not a good choice for a dog room given that concrete is a highly porous surface and stains easily.  It is extremely difficult to sanitize as well, if at all.

I have a chemical free home here and so my considerations may not be your's - but we had stamped, colored concrete outside and just ripped it all up and in the process right now of re-doing.  This was the last "toxic chemical" left on my property after making our home "green".  Since I am not willing to use the chemical sealers necessary to maintain it, it really looked like h*ll (and does quickly if these sealers are not consistently applied).  Some installers will even use epoxies on it which is one of the biggest off-gasers and air pollutants we have - so not a great choice for a small space or not well ventilated space.

As a result, I avoid all products high in chemical density and especially those that off-gas - like many vinyls.

The best products to use from an air quality stand point, are linoleum, porcelain tile, or natural products (rubber, stone, or slate). Marmoleum in particular is very safe, and anti-bacterial and easy to clean (http://www.themarmoleumstore.com).  Tile, as long as you can deal with the grout, is also a great, safe, cooling choice.  The rubber floors used in garages, as long as they aren't treated, are good options as well.

I only suggest this because I think staining, sanitation, and safety are all important considerations for your intended use.

30
Bernese Mountain Dog Discussions / Re: Running with a Berner
« on: January 07, 2009, 12:43:34 pm »

Hiking...off leash, where Sammy controls his pace (which you should notice is a lot of trotting, and stopping) is great and you can build up his endurance and muscle strength for this.

Jogging no - very bad for his joints and he is not built for this, even though he is undersized for a Berner.

To determine how much to do with him now at this age, you should be x-raying his hips and elbows.  You need to know now whether there is dysplasia there so you can take preventative measures now (mild dysplasia may not show up arthritically until age 4 so you want to know now) and determine how heavy of activities you can appropriately do with him. If his hips and elbows are cleared by a radiologist, or ideally the OFA, then drafting and hiking are great activities and he can ultimately go several miles.

Berners are not built for endurance however so a lot of stopping is their usual M.O.


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