Author Topic: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!  (Read 12251 times)

Offline forgottensecrets

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Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« on: July 27, 2006, 04:40:03 pm »
My mom and I decided we want to breed my retired show bitch, but finding just the right stud is hard.  She is lacking in a lot of areas for a Saint.  I would like to breed her to a stud out of some of the best lines, that I know has produced what I am looking for in this litter, but my mom has chosen a stud that I don't agree with completely.  We know his mother is out of one of the top breeding kennels, and somehow disappeared after a few shows.  I am looking for reasons to tell my mom not to use this stud, but she is too afraid to ask any of the breeders of the studs I choose that have all health and temperment certifications, as well as match my girl conformation wise.  Her breeding will take place her next heat in about 5 months.

Here are some pictures.

My girl before and after her recent heat.

She always gets thin right before going into heat.


She gains that weight back during her heat.

The boy my mom chose.  He is gorgeous, but not what I would choose for her.




Yes, I am the one holding his lead in those pictures.  He was sent to me to be trained, and for my sister to possibly show in Juniors if she ever decides to actually show, as well as to be bred unless I can convince my mom otherwise.  I will post links to pictures of his mother's parents once I get a chance.
-Rose-

"Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lifes whole"
                 -Roger Caras

Offline PennyK

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 01:03:19 am »
I will state it out front - I know nothing about showing or breeding saints.  ::)

That being said....compar ing him to the pics on the AKC website, he seems to have a rather narrow girth - not as thick from withers to belly as most.  The hair can be deceiving - maybe I'm not seeing correctly?  Your girl looks nice and thick - I'm not sure that would be something I would want to lose.
Every girl needs a Teddy bear!

Lyn

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 02:33:37 am »
I know nothing about breeding either.. but I'm seeing the narrow girth also. Although he could still be filling out. forgottensecre ts, How old is he?

He just doesn't compliment her. (Not that I know what I'm talking about.. LOL)

But, In my opinion your girl has a more appealing head/muzzle shape.

Offline greek4

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 02:46:13 am »
I don't know anything about Saints and even less about breeding but they are nice looking dogs.  Could you find another reputiable breeder near you to give you advice and help convince your mom?
Thanks,

Emily and 1 husband, 1 boy, 1 on the way, and 4 crazy dogs

Offline shangrila

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 02:26:59 pm »
.
RIP former BPO

Offline forgottensecrets

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 04:44:41 pm »
I forgot to mention.  Marshmallow will be three years old March 1st, and Batista is only a young one yet.  He is about a year and half.  I will have to ask his birthdate again.  I forget.

I did e-mail Slaton Saints today, they are the kennel that own and showed Ch. Trusts Gentle Ben V. Slaton.  I am hoping to hear back soon from them.

Yes, that is not how I meant it.  I meant she could use more exaggeration in a few areas, such as a little more foreskull to compliment her nice stop.  She definitely needs to be bred to a stud with more bone and better angulation, which Batista has the angulation.  She also needs a more exaggerated head as in all her pictures, she always looks like her head is too small for her body.

I think with the right stud, she may produce beautiful pups, but I don't think that Batista is the stud for her.

-Rose-
-Rose-

"Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lifes whole"
                 -Roger Caras

doggylover

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 07:16:31 pm »
I think she is wonderful as a pet, but has the dog been through all the extensive testing she would need?  I am hesitant to say a whole lot, because this issue seems to get emotionally charged very easily, but it isn't feeling like the best situation as far as breeding her goes. 
I LOVE my boy Badger, LOVE LOVE LOVE and I think he is the most AWESOME Rotty EVER, but I haven't studied lines for years, I haven't done massive testing on him (um he would surely fail anyway), I haven't spent years in the show ring and doing all that I would need to do to breed him, so I never considered doing it, as PERFECT as he is for our family. 
Good luck with whatever you choose...

Offline forgottensecrets

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2006, 09:31:55 am »
We are going to have her hips and elbows Vet checked before breeding her, just to make sure everything is okay.  I don't know if we would be able to OFA her through our vet, but I can find out.

She has a really nice head and her markings are pretty and considering she has perfect pigmentation as compared to our others, who have lighter pigmentation, but still black.  What I mean by exaggerating the head is that I am looking for a stud that has looser flews, and a little more foreskull.  Her head is really rather lovely for a female.  I think I forgot to post the picture of her head.





She has a gorgeous front, which is one thing that was mentioned as a breed weakness at our National Specialty last October.  She also has a really nice topline, it is just hard to tell in those pictures because we only have hills to work on, well, around.  I want a stud with a straighter coat, though.  One thing I would like to keep is her natural muscle.  You can see and feel it the way it is supposed to be no matter what.

Yes, I suddenly got the urge to think positive and state some of the less obvious qualities she has.

She is an all around sweetheart.  I occasionally take her to do therapy work, she has been to my school a couple times for presentations on grooming and other types of things that deal with Animal/Veterinary Science.

Here is another random picture of her.
-Rose-

"Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lifes whole"
                 -Roger Caras

doggylover

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2006, 09:38:59 am »
My comment would be that she is a wonderful pet. 
 :)
She is lovely!

SA_horses

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2006, 11:33:31 am »
We are going to have her hips and elbows Vet checked before breeding her, just to make sure everything is okay.  I don't know if we would be able to OFA her through our vet, but I can find out.

This is JMO, but I do think would be best to submit the x-rays to OFA, if at all possible.  At the very least, I personally would read this article and possibly print it out to make sure that you get good shots of her hips.

She has a really nice head and her markings are pretty and considering she has perfect pigmentation as compared to our others, who have lighter pigmentation, but still black.  What I mean by exaggerating the head is that I am looking for a stud that has looser flews, and a little more foreskull.  Her head is really rather lovely for a female.  I think I forgot to post the picture of her head.

I know nothing about St. Bernards, but it sounds like you are trying to be realistic about her bad points as well as the good ones - a very good thing.  :)

She has a gorgeous front, which is one thing that was mentioned as a breed weakness at our National Specialty last October.  She also has a really nice topline, it is just hard to tell in those pictures because we only have hills to work on, well, around.  I want a stud with a straighter coat, though.  One thing I would like to keep is her natural muscle.  You can see and feel it the way it is supposed to be no matter what.

I think that, if poor fronts are a common problem, the gorgeous front alone would be good reason to breed her, providing that she doesn't have any structural flaws.  How does her rear (not sure if that's the right term in dogs) look?  Just something to think about.

There are two other things that came to mind.  How did she do in the show-ring, since you did say that she showed?  Besides therapy work, has she done anything else that would require a lot of movement?  Search and rescue, carting, anything like that?

The questions are just things for you to consider for your girl.

As far as a stud, I think you need to evaluate his weak points and strengths.  I am sure that you have done that, just not on this thread.  Anyway, if your girl and the potential sire are both weak on a certain point, then explain that to your mother.  That would be likely to produce puppies with the same flaw, right?  Also, since your girl's best point is her front, I would try to pick a stud that also has a good front.

I do, BTW, think that your girl looks beautiful as a dog, although I am not judge of her as a St. Bernard.  ;)

Sofia

Offline forgottensecrets

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2006, 05:53:51 am »
We are going to have her hips and elbows Vet checked before breeding her, just to make sure everything is okay.  I don't know if we would be able to OFA her through our vet, but I can find out.

This is JMO, but I do think would be best to submit the x-rays to OFA, if at all possible.  At the very least, I personally would read this article and possibly print it out to make sure that you get good shots of her hips.

She has a really nice head and her markings are pretty and considering she has perfect pigmentation as compared to our others, who have lighter pigmentation, but still black.  What I mean by exaggerating the head is that I am looking for a stud that has looser flews, and a little more foreskull.  Her head is really rather lovely for a female.  I think I forgot to post the picture of her head.

I know nothing about St. Bernards, but it sounds like you are trying to be realistic about her bad points as well as the good ones - a very good thing.  :)

She has a gorgeous front, which is one thing that was mentioned as a breed weakness at our National Specialty last October.  She also has a really nice topline, it is just hard to tell in those pictures because we only have hills to work on, well, around.  I want a stud with a straighter coat, though.  One thing I would like to keep is her natural muscle.  You can see and feel it the way it is supposed to be no matter what.

I think that, if poor fronts are a common problem, the gorgeous front alone would be good reason to breed her, providing that she doesn't have any structural flaws.  How does her rear (not sure if that's the right term in dogs) look?  Just something to think about.

There are two other things that came to mind.  How did she do in the show-ring, since you did say that she showed?  Besides therapy work, has she done anything else that would require a lot of movement?  Search and rescue, carting, anything like that?

The questions are just things for you to consider for your girl.

As far as a stud, I think you need to evaluate his weak points and strengths.  I am sure that you have done that, just not on this thread.  Anyway, if your girl and the potential sire are both weak on a certain point, then explain that to your mother.  That would be likely to produce puppies with the same flaw, right?  Also, since your girl's best point is her front, I would try to pick a stud that also has a good front.

I do, BTW, think that your girl looks beautiful as a dog, although I am not judge of her as a St. Bernard.  ;)

Sofia


I know we definitely want to have her results on the OFA website.  I'm not too worried about her because her grandfather was OFA Excellent, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she is, which is why we want to at least have her checked before breeding.  Temperment and Health are both number one on the list of things needed when breeding.  Conformation and Trainability are second.

Her rear in general is okay.  She could use a bit more rear angulation, but that is easy to correct in the pups.  Her dad is the only one that I know of that has less than perfect angulation, so she has good angulation in her background.

I have chosen a few studs that have perfect angulation in almost their entire immediate pedigree, but also have nice fronts, and keeping the nice head will be my next focus for the studs I've chosen, but the problem is getting my mom to contact their owners.

-Rose-
-Rose-

"Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lifes whole"
                 -Roger Caras

Offline forgottensecrets

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2006, 06:05:14 am »
I forgot to mention.  She has started weight pull training, and I would love to look into Tracking because she tracks things when we go up to the mountains.  Saints were bred to find skiiers in the Swiss Alps, so those noses had to be used.

I also forgot to mention that she has great Saint instints, which I have never noticed from any other Saint I've met, besides her mom.  Mush will lay right beside you if you lay on the ground, in her mind to keep you warm, or she will sit over you to protect you from harm.  I also love her great stamina, which would allow her to easily perform her function. 

-Rose-
-Rose-

"Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lifes whole"
                 -Roger Caras

Offline forgottensecrets

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2007, 07:36:10 am »
I wanted to update on my post.  Marshmallow has not been bred yet, as I was able to convince my mom to choose a better stud.  We will be proceeding with the breeding here when she comes back into heat in 2-3 weeks.  I need to take new pictures of the boy the next time I see him, which will most likely be when Mush is in heat.  I also found a nice boy as a second option.  Here is a picture of the second boy.



I also forgot the front shot a LONG time ago that I had of Marshmallow.


At the time the above before heat pic was taken.


This past summer.


A few weeks ago.

Her head became very doggy looking.  She really came into herself better than I expected.  She is now 3 years and 2.5 months old.
-Rose-

"Dogs are not our whole lives, but they make our lifes whole"
                 -Roger Caras

Offline Nina

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Re: Um... Comments on a Saint Bernard Pairing?!
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 11:12:58 pm »
Wow she really looks good. Glad to hear that you waited to find the right match for your girl.

Nina
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