Author Topic: Backyard Breeders  (Read 27099 times)

Offline longshadowfarms

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2006, 06:40:19 am »
How do you find someone who is not a byb?

You find dogs you like in the breed you are interested in and then ask where the person bought the dog.  Go to dog shows if you are looking for a show/pet breed, go to field trials or working trials for a working dog.  The thread with questions to ask a breeder is excellent.  Let the breeder talk.  The more they talk, the better you'll be able to ascertain their underlying motivation for breeding.  There are people who show who are just in it for the money too so don't think that anyone who shows is ok.   Another good indicator once you think you've found a good possibility is to visit and see their old dogs.  How old are their old dogs?  Are they still in good health?  Do you like the temperament of the dogs you meet?  To me those is are good indicators.  It is a lot of work to find a good breeder.  We looked for over 10 yrs for another Lab line we were willing to buy into.
Daphne

Offline daisy

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2006, 08:22:57 am »
Thanks for answering all of my questions.
I don't think we are ready to look for a breeder just yet, but I want to be as educated about it as possible.

Offline gabeshouse

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2006, 11:50:18 am »
I had an Alaskan Malamute that lived to 14 1/2 years with no health issues until old age related things came in the last year. The one problem, she was VERY timid for several weeks about anyone or anything new because of no socialization. I realize now I was lucky to have missed out on big problems.

I bought her from what I would descibe today as a backyard breeder. I did get AKC papers but I didn't really get a lot of info on parents temperment or health history. I knew I wanted an Alaskan Malamute. I had $250. That was what they cost. End of story. I didn't know at the time any of the right questions to ask and the breeders only question was "do you have the money?"

My latest search for a pup was more in depth on my part. The breeders I spoke to seemed more concerned about the home their pups were going to than the cost. The breeders I spoke to this time hepled make me ask the right questions and provided solid answers. I don't know that all "backyard breeders" are bad. I do believe you miss out on alot of history on the pups bloodline. I believe that a lot of risk in both health and temperment can be minimized by avoiding breeders that can't provide solid background in both those areas.

Offline LuvmyMal

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2006, 12:56:11 pm »
 They showed me what brushes to use for grooming, including giving me a sheet with info on grooming Saints, what to feed them, and she gave me a Puppy Care Kit made by Hills- Science Diet company with a record book in it for all Dolly's vet records. However, as good as they sound, I have tried to contact them just to give them good updates on Dolly as she's grown over the year and they have not responded once.

What do you guys think
Quote


Sounds like the people I got Nala from, I picked her up with a puppy care kit, paid more than I did for Tonka, she just turned one and I can not get in touch with them. I send reports on both of them monthly via email with pictures. Don't know if you guys remember but Nala was horrible when I first brought her home, never crated, never paper trained, sweetest temperment ever.

Now Tonka, my first mal, she was the runt and due to health issues with the breeder she had to let them go early. If I don't call her atleast once a month she is calling every number I have and the alternate people to find out what is going on. When Tonka had surgery, she offered to help me pay for it, at the time her husband had been laid off and she did not have the money to help, ofcourse I told her that it was my responsibility and I would handle it. Tonka came w/not health guarantee, but when I received her pedigree both grandparents have hip/eye certifications ...whew...I am taking her to see the lady tomorrow and to see her mom and dad...I did have to sign a contract that I was in no way allowed to give her up unless I surrendered back to them.

Offline BlackGreatF

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2006, 01:16:46 pm »
Gypsy said,"...They are breeding for the love of the breed & to better their beloved breed..."

So question to the group... there is this breeder that sells her dogs when they are done breeding them.  They'd be about 5-6 years old.  Why would breeders do this?  Don't they love their dogs, they've had since they were 8 weeks??  I don't get it??

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2006, 01:23:23 pm »
Gypsy said,"...They are breeding for the love of the breed & to better their beloved breed..."

So question to the group... there is this breeder that sells her dogs when they are done breeding them.  They'd be about 5-6 years old.  Why would breeders do this?  Don't they love their dogs, they've had since they were 8 weeks??  I don't get it??
Good question!!!!!!!!!!!! :)  Perhaps there are different level of reputable breedrs too?...There's some food for thought.

Offline NoDogNow

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2006, 01:39:42 pm »
Depending on the breed, it may be that they feel that the right new home will allow them to do what they were actually bred to do.

I know people who had/have 'retired' hunting bitches who were only hunting 2 weeks a year at their breeder's home during their 'puppy' years, who get to hunt almost every day it's legal in their new home.  Some are retired to farms, to guard or herd for the rest of their lives. 

Moms with puppies get a LOT of attention at a breeders house; I think it must be hard for a girl who's used to being the center of attention that way to have to give up her place.  A new home where she's the center of attention again can often be better for her, and sometimes that's the reason.

The people I know who've gotten dogs in this way have been practically adopted by the breeders in question, by the way, because they do love their dogs. They're just looking for a happier, more fulfilled life for them usually.
 
Sheryl, Dogless and sad

Offline Saint and Mal mom

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2006, 05:20:21 pm »
But isn't it true that no matter how much testing you have done on a puppy's parents, a pup can still have severe health problems, just like humans? I may have relatively good eyes and my someday in very distant future husband could even have perfect eyes, but that is no guarantee that any kids we would have can have no risk of being blind at birth, for any weird reason or another. So perhaps byb's and legit, good breeders may both have pups that aren't quite as medically sound as possible, right?
Marissa

Zoey- Alaskan Malamute, 4 years
Dolly, CGC- Saint Bernard, 4 years
Foster mom to Clarence- Basset Hound, 5 years

"To be loved by...any animal should fill us with awe-for we have not deserved it."

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2006, 05:48:37 pm »
But isn't it true that no matter how much testing you have done on a puppy's parents, a pup can still have severe health problems, just like humans? I may have relatively good eyes and my someday in very distant future husband could even have perfect eyes, but that is no guarantee that any kids we would have can have no risk of being blind at birth, for any weird reason or another. So perhaps byb's and legit, good breeders may both have pups that aren't quite as medically sound as possible, right?
Any pup can suffer health problems no matter how well bred HOWEVER with good genetics there is a far lesser chance of health problems...Tha t's why a reputable breeder offers a health gauruntee...Th ey would be foolish to do this if they didn't take proper measures that allow them to stand behind their pups. :)

Offline Saint and Mal mom

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2006, 05:56:16 pm »
Oh, I get it. Are all vets qualified to do the recommended testing?
Marissa

Zoey- Alaskan Malamute, 4 years
Dolly, CGC- Saint Bernard, 4 years
Foster mom to Clarence- Basset Hound, 5 years

"To be loved by...any animal should fill us with awe-for we have not deserved it."

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2006, 06:05:44 pm »
Oh, I get it. Are all vets qualified to do the recommended testing?
I am pretty sure that any vet can do the x-rays needed to be sent into the OFA (orthepedic foundation for animals) so the OFA can score the dog's hips & elbows...I am not sure about the health testing though...anyon e?

Offline navarre1316

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2006, 06:11:27 pm »
I know there are vets that actually have specialized in areas, just like people doctors!  I had to take Navarre to a specialist in Louisiana, so you have to check and see where they are.  Besides x-rays most of the test are the genetic/DNA type which is bloodwork which any vet can pull it's just a matter of where they send it and what the labs have available to them.  I am lucky, if my vet is unsure or thinks another vet has more knowledge in a certain area they tell me, they don't act like they know it all and stear me in circles.  So that's definitely a plus.
God placed me on this earth to accomplish certain tasks...I'm so far behind I'll never die!!

Navarre: GSD 9/13/99-5/14/06 patiently waiting
Issabeaux: GSD 1/27/07
Daphne: Boxer
Stone: Siamese mix

Offline Good Hope

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2006, 05:14:21 am »
THE definition of BYB can be found here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/backyard-breeder

Although many interesting ideas have been posted, I believe that there is some confusion regarding the difference between BYBs and irresponsible breeders. Opinions and additional criteria have been added to THE definition of a BYB. It seems many of you see no difference between an irresponsible breeder and a BYB. I am also concerned that someone may think an ethical hobby breeder is a BYB.

Honestly, I can tell you that my involvment with breed rescue has been an eye opener. With some breeds, there are more rescues that come from show breeders than others. I can also tell you that many breeders on parent club breed lists breed dysplastic dogs, breed brother/sister, and mother/son or father/daughter. Some of these breeders are board members of the AKC parent breed club. So, I guess for some breeds that really throws out the  breed club breeders lists.

Before I became a dentist, my degree was in genetics. I did genetic research, human genetic research. We were attempting to find markers for various forms of cancer. Having listened to "supposed experts" who show and breed, I can tell you with absolute certainty, many of these people have jumped on the latest opinion trend in breeding and have damaged the breed as whole.

With that said... my opinion regarding "Responsible Breeding" is an individual who is willing to be financially responsibile for the dogs they breed and their progeny for the life of those dogs. Keep in mind even with vast research in geneology of lines, health clearances, etc. There will still be the potential for genetic defects. There is no "perfect" set of rules to follow or way to avoid it.

Additionally, don't forget about the vast number of "Irresponsible pet owners." These people may not follow through with basic care, feeding, socialization, and/or training. This IMO is just as bad as the "Irresponsible breeder," and at times seems worse than any BYB.

Deena

« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 05:16:44 am by Good Hope »

Offline Good Hope

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2006, 05:20:18 am »
Oh, I get it. Are all vets qualified to do the recommended testing?

NO! All vets lack the staff and sufficent skill level to produce the quality x-rays for OFA certification. For tests, etc.such as thyroid panel. They are qualified to do blood draws and send it to the appropriate lab.

Hope that helps.

Deena

Gypsy Jazmine

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Re: Backyard Breeders
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2006, 06:06:03 am »
THE definition of BYB can be found here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/backyard-breeder

Although many interesting ideas have been posted, I believe that there is some confusion regarding the difference between BYBs and irresponsible breeders. Opinions and additional criteria have been added to THE definition of a BYB. It seems many of you see no difference between an irresponsible breeder and a BYB. I am also concerned that someone may think an ethical hobby breeder is a BYB.

Honestly, I can tell you that my involvment with breed rescue has been an eye opener. With some breeds, there are more rescues that come from show breeders than others. I can also tell you that many breeders on parent club breed lists breed dysplastic dogs, breed brother/sister, and mother/son or father/daughter. Some of these breeders are board members of the AKC parent breed club. So, I guess for some breeds that really throws out the  breed club breeders lists.

Before I became a dentist, my degree was in genetics. I did genetic research, human genetic research. We were attempting to find markers for various forms of cancer. Having listened to "supposed experts" who show and breed, I can tell you with absolute certainty, many of these people have jumped on the latest opinion trend in breeding and have damaged the breed as whole.

With that said... my opinion regarding "Responsible Breeding" is an individual who is willing to be financially responsibile for the dogs they breed and their progeny for the life of those dogs. Keep in mind even with vast research in geneology of lines, health clearances, etc. There will still be the potential for genetic defects. There is no "perfect" set of rules to follow or way to avoid it.

Additionally, don't forget about the vast number of "Irresponsible pet owners." These people may not follow through with basic care, feeding, socialization, and/or training. This IMO is just as bad as the "Irresponsible breeder," and at times seems worse than any BYB.

Deena


Very good & imformative post, Deena!!...Good good stuff there!!...Ty for helping seperate! :)