American pitbulls and other bully breeds

[mama23+pyrs2]

 I personally think that many pyrs, with their guardian breeding and large size, can be more prone to attacking than a lot of other dogs. But that doesn't make me think they are all vicious.

Wow, really? Hmmmm. From what I know, Pyr attacks are a very rare occurence. But I see what you're saying. I think or hope physical agression would be their last means of defense, at least it's supposed to be, barking being the first.  But I'm sure it's totally possible for them to hurt someone that comes where they should not, then I can't blame the dog- any dog that's only doing it's job. I know when I met my pups parents they scared me, quite an intimidating presence through a fence.  She told me if she wasn't there with me and I tried to come in there, they would have taken my arm off, and I have no doubts about that.

Anyway, yeah I understand that statment.

I have to disagree about Pyrs being prone to attack people. There is a huge difference in the breed purpose. Pyrs are to protect the flock, Pitbulls are to guard the property and people. Pyrs are barkers and not attackers. Anyone can enter the house with Pyr in it and do not suffer an injury. Now, try doing it with Pitbull in it! Pitbulls are wonderful companions and great guard dogs. They will go for the throat! "Truly quality companions for quality owners only!"

I really did phrase that wrong...LOL.  Guys, I have a pyr, too, and LOVE them but I do recognize that Chammie would protect her flock and her territory...ju st as a pit would. Maybe not in the same manner...but I am sure that both would be protective.  My whole point was that all dogs can attack.  So when we point fingers at pits, let's just for the sake of arguement point them back at our own breeds.   All dogs could be considered vicious and, frankly, large/meaty working, guarding dogs have historically been the dogs perceived as "vicious".  Take a look at dobies, rotties (draft work and herding doesn't seem to vicious to me), etc.   Who's to say that pyrs, great danes, etc are next? What I'm trying to do is make this issue come home to those of us who don't have pits.

Our breeds can be affected by terrible people breeding and training for more "viciousness".  They are big, they are powerful and they have innate guarding tendencies.  Then, when they were perceived as "bad", we'd have BSL and perception problems.  I'll tell you one thing, Chammie barking her fool head off and body slamming against the fence is way more intimidating that the really well behaved GSDs across the street. LOL.

I just think this issue is so much deeper than pits. I really do.

lol, yeah that is what spooked me about my pups parents. They definitely have a way of letting you know to stay away without being agressive. I had also never been around a huge dog in my life, nothing bigger than our 110 lb Golden who was quite big for a Golden but paled in comparison to these 3 Pyrs.

[morph's mom]

I have just been sitting back and watching this post. At dog beach in San diego AJ was attacked twice by two different PBT.  All I knew about the breed was things that I had heard from the news and I will admitt that I was ignorant of the breed.  After the attacks (AJ wasnt really hurt, thank god for all his hair) it just reinforced my opinons of them.  I truely became terrified of them, if there was one at a dog park I would leave and go to another one till I found one with no PBT's.  We were at Balboa dog park about three months after the incident with AJ and a PBT came in while we were in the park.  I was trying to hook Morph and AJ's leashes when Morph pulled away from me and headed straight for her.  I took AJ over with me to get Morph so that we could leave and he started playing with her too.  It was like he was a puppy again, I had never seen anything like it.  Come to find out... Sandy was the sweetest dog in the world.  Her mom and I became friends and we spend almost every evening at the park talking while the kids played.  She even took me to a PBT meet and greet where I soon realized that they are not "Bad" dogs at all.  I love them now.  I dont think that they are the right breed for my family but they are for some.  I no longer shy away from them but I dont go running up to them either.  I am respectful of them and thier space just as I expect people to be with Morph.  I can not tell you how many people have asked me... "Is he friendly?"  To which I answer yes as long as you are calm and respectful.  I am very selective on the people that I allow to pet him because his parents had MAJOR aggression issues and I belive that he is genetically predetermined to have them also.  We have worked many many tireless hours on socalization and behavior modification to prevent him from growing up like his parents.  IMHO nurture can beat nature... with a lot of time and dedication.

I do honestly believe that the media does control a lot of our opinions on things.  And PBT's are one of them.  Here is an example of 2 media reports from 2 different news papers on the exact same story.  What do you think about the differences?

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2006/March06/Canadianlabmixattackpart2.htm

here is the second report

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/2006/March06/mixedbreedlabs.pdf

[Gevaudan_Jo]

As a bullie owner, i really wish i'd have seen this before it got so deep. hahaha.
People will come up to me when i have zero, and ask "what kind of dog", when i answer "bull terrier" They back away. as if i said "pitbull terrier" i always then tell them "bull terriers are  not part of the breed ban, they are not pit bulls" they get more comfortable. But now with Jigsaw, my white girl, they all know what she is... how weird? U know, i do love pitbulls, and i woudl definately own one, if there wasnt a breed ban. they are great dogs and deserve great homes. but i agree with everything, they SHOULD be approached with caution while on the street esp. if you dont know who's dog it is.

OH and one more thing, this was one of the stories in that big list of dog bites... this one was in my home town, actually the street down from me...
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/September2005/DogoSept05.pdf
and what they DONT say is this...
the two Dogos were actually a breeding pair, this owner had paid ALOT of money in order to have these dogs and breed them, etc. the female was pregnant... the small dog who was mauled WAS NOT LEASHED, and ran to these dogs and jumped ALL OVER the pregnant female. the male DID NOT touch the dog...   so, the owner HAD to put these gorgeous dogs down, both... WHY? i dont understand. its so sad.
Oh, and one more thing... i was reading those stories that were posted, basically, i clicked the ones that read "Bull terrier"  but im pretty tired of BULL TERRIERS being to blame for STAFF. BULL TERRIER attacks. like, come on. be more specific...  people are just stupid. they can't shorten a name like that for news papers, etc. imo
Jo

[Nicole]

ooooh, boy!

This is REALLY a heated topic. In my opinion...if you are afraid of a particular type of dog, you probably SHOULD avoid it. YOu are going to put of "I'm scared of you!" vibes, and the dog is going to pick up on that. I think that being afraid of a dog is the best way to get bitten by one. (Wait, did someone already say that?)

Anyway, as far as Pitties. They are pretty much one of my favorite dogs. They're the sweetest, most loving, loyal, athletic, entertaining, clowinish, dork-head dogs I've ever met. Don't get me wrong. I love the big drooly Newfs and stuff. But, when I want to go running or swimming or hiking, you cannot beat the stamina of a pitty! They're GREAT! My pitty X Bo was the best babysitter to my young nephew. He protected my daughter on walks. He ruled. He was euthanized because someone claimed that he bit her (he jumped up on her...long story) and I'm sure that they wouldn't have euthanized him if he'd been another breed.

There's definitely prejudice out there. We HAVE to acknowledge it or we won't get very far. Those of us that love these dogs ARE sensitive, and we jump at the chance to dispel myths. Kristina, one of your first comments was that you would run the other way if you saw a pitty and another one was that they are "all jaws". These are the comments that get us pitty lovers' panties in a bundle, and I'm sure that you are feeling people's responses to those comments.

I don't have to tell you that all dogs bite. You know that. You know, it is funny that the Pyr comparison was made. I've ALWAYS thought of Pyrs as aggressive dogs. My whole life. Well, not aggressive, but just not to be trusted because of their jobs. They are really bred to be more of a guard dog than a pitty. Pitties were companions and hunting dogs. Not guard dogs. (in the beginning) More like...a beagle or a bloodhound. I guess. Anyway...just goes to show you that perception is truly everything.

[Moni]

It wasn't until recently that Pit Bulls were bred for guarding anything.  They were bred for dog fighting and back when it was legal and a "gentleman's sport" you would not see a pit with people aggression.     These dogs needed to be pulled off the other dog, usually while badly injured themselves, and be trusted not to turn on their handlers or one of the spectators.  If a dog showed any aggression towards people, it was usually put down quickly.  (I am NOT condoning dog fighting btw!!!)

Unfortunately for the breed, dog fights became illegal and went underground.  Nowadays people who dog fight are most often involved in other illegal activities too(like drugs & weapons, etc) and started to breed the aggression INTO the dogs.  They want a powerful dog that can be in the pit and also guard their possessions.  Then more people see this powerful dog and want to feel macho and intimidating, so they breed for meaner and meaner dogs.  So they start breeding aggression into the dogs.  They did it with GSDs, Dobies, Rotties and now the breed of choice are the Pitty types, though it seems to be starting to fade a little since they are getting banned everywhere.

But what is this banning doing in return?  Its just causing these people to look for a new breed to ruin.  I'm seeing an increase in Neos, DDBs and Cane Corsos turning up in city shelters, same with Danes.  Its scary, especially since these dogs are a lot larger than an average pit and will be able to do the same or even more damage if they attack someone.

Yes there are still many, many great pitties out there, but now thanks to these people, there are aggressive ones too.  Its happening with many breeds, so much that I don't like my kids around any dogs that I don't know. 

Stupid irresponsible owners... 

[mama23+pyrs2]

ooooh, boy!

This is REALLY a heated topic. In my opinion...if you are afraid of a particular type of dog, you probably SHOULD avoid it. YOu are going to put of "I'm scared of you!" vibes, and the dog is going to pick up on that. I think that being afraid of a dog is the best way to get bitten by one. (Wait, did someone already say that?)

Anyway, as far as Pitties. They are pretty much one of my favorite dogs. They're the sweetest, most loving, loyal, athletic, entertaining, clowinish, dork-head dogs I've ever met. Don't get me wrong. I love the big drooly Newfs and stuff. But, when I want to go running or swimming or hiking, you cannot beat the stamina of a pitty! They're GREAT! My pitty X Bo was the best babysitter to my young nephew. He protected my daughter on walks. He ruled. He was euthanized because someone claimed that he bit her (he jumped up on her...long story) and I'm sure that they wouldn't have euthanized him if he'd been another breed.

There's definitely prejudice out there. We HAVE to acknowledge it or we won't get very far. Those of us that love these dogs ARE sensitive, and we jump at the chance to dispel myths. Kristina, one of your first comments was that you would run the other way if you saw a pitty and another one was that they are "all jaws". These are the comments that get us pitty lovers' panties in a bundle, and I'm sure that you are feeling people's responses to those comments.

I don't have to tell you that all dogs bite. You know that. You know, it is funny that the Pyr comparison was made. I've ALWAYS thought of Pyrs as aggressive dogs. My whole life. Well, not aggressive, but just not to be trusted because of their jobs. They are really bred to be more of a guard dog than a pitty. Pitties were companions and hunting dogs. Not guard dogs. (in the beginning) More like...a beagle or a bloodhound. I guess. Anyway...just goes to show you that perception is truly everything.

First of all, I never said I would run from a pitbull. I said I wouldn't run up to any stray dog and pet it, and I also said if I saw a large or intimidating dog running for me, I would pick my kids up. I don't ever recall saying I'd run from a Pitbull because I never would run from any dog, I think that's the last thing you should ever do if you feel threatened by a dog.

The jaws comment is the truth and taken out of context makes it sound bad. I was saying how scary it would be if one attacked my dog since I've read they go for their throats and their jaws are obviously massive.. not all dogs are agressive like that nor fight that way. I don't know how my dog would stand a chance if a fiesty little muscular dog bred to fight went straight for his throat. It just got me thinking is all, that it would be scary.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone at all or anyone's dog. I merely was making statments I believe to be true and people got offended. I didn't get offended at the Pyr comments eventhough I've never heard or read about Pyr attacks, if I had, I would have thought a lot harder about getting one let alone two. Of course knowing there is no guarantees on any dog, I chose one firstly that would be excellent with my kids. It's my understanding that Pyrs BARK, they bark and they posture and they give plenty of warning to chase away predators, they don't run after them and attack them, but they patrol and bark to protect their property and make a loud statment that they are there. I've never read a thing about them being people aggressive, only the opposite. Dogs protect in different ways, some hold them at bay, some pin them down, some attack. That's what I know.

I just think I'm spinning my wheels here. Sorry if I offended anyone out there, that was NOT my intention, nor did I ever think I did that with what I wrote, but if I did so unknowingly, I do apologize.

[kathryn]

I've been reading this thread because it's really interesting.  I don't think it's been heated at all.  It's an emotional issue that's all.  I've never owned a bully breed other than a boston terrier.  According to the dangerous dog breed lists that I have seen Malinois listed on them.  I have also seen lists of proposed BSLs that would effect my breed.  Why, because they are used in protection sports and by police.  I have people run up at my dogs all the time to say hi even when I tell them to ignore the dogs because they don't like that.  My dogs need to be the ones to approach a person first.  A lot of people don't get that especially children.  I had to stop my neighbor's children from running up at my dog to pet it.  Who's fault would it have been if the child hadn't listened to me and had gotten injured?  It would have been my fault and my dog's. 

I have to disagree with the part that only bully breeds go for the throat.  In my experience all dogs will go for the throat or the belly in a fight.  Those are the two most vulnerable parts on any dogs body. 

I completely agree that not every breed is right for every household.  For me, I don't think that a Great Dane is the right dog for me.  I love the way they look and I love them but they seem really dainty to me.  It's probably because I have "in your face" extremely high energy guys.  I have owned a Rottie/GSD boy and there is nothing like the love and devotion that a Rottie can give to you.  At some point I will have another Rottie in my house but I will always have a Malinois also. 

Definitely everyone has to be careful about BSL because it really does effect us all even if you don't own a pit bull. 

[mama23+pyrs2]

I have to admit if I see a pitbull I'm gonna go the other way too, it's not like I'm gonna run up to pet or hug it. Too many bad stories and bad people raising scary ones.

I think this is the quote they are referring to.

I guess that's the first comment that started this whole thing, there it's my fault. I'm the horrible dog hater on the board now.

Again I think I explained it all tooooooooooooo oooo many times in the posts that followed where exactly I stood on the matter. Not running from the dog and why I felt I wouldn't want to go up to it. But if anyone wants to convince themselves I'm terrible and prejudice against the best dogs in the world- Pittbulls, go right ahead. I've only been spending my time trying to make people understand where I'm coming from when I don't have to, and I'm also the only one that offered an apology for any possible hurt feelings. Maybe we all can move on now.

[People Whisperer]

I have to admit if I see a pitbull I'm gonna go the other way too, it's not like I'm gonna run up to pet or hug it. Too many bad stories and bad people raising scary ones.

I think this is the quote they are referring to.

I guess that's the first comment that started this whole thing, there it's my fault. I'm the horrible dog hater on the board now.

Again I think I explained it all tooooooooooooo oooo many times in the posts that followed where exactly I stood on the matter. Not running from the dog and why I felt I wouldn't want to go up to it. But if anyone wants to convince themselves I'm terrible and prejudice against the best dogs in the world- Pittbulls, go right ahead. I've only been spending my time trying to make people understand where I'm coming from when I don't have to, and I'm also the only one that offered an apology for any possible hurt feelings. Maybe we all can move on now.

Kristina is a dog hater... Kristina is a dog hater, LOL
Let's move on!!!

[People Whisperer]

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not trying to sound like Pollyanna but I think we're all sort of saying similar things and digging a great big hole around us.

[/quote]
Now you are talking like a Pyr! hee-hee

[mama23+pyrs2]

The great thing about having different breeds is that each person can choose a different breed with qualities that suit them best...I usually end up with mutts since they are unique, wacky and you just never know what you're gonna get!  

I can honestly say that there are breeds out there that don't suit me one bit...I'm just not into them.  The girls at the meet and greet in Atlanta will tell you that I got out of control excited when fluffy dogs came into the dog park.  I just like fluffy dogs!  My sister, well, she wants none of that... She loves her smooth hound mix and adores great danes (I love them, but, dang it!, I need some fluff!).    And I prefer herding breeds...I just love 'em.  I got lucky finding a great pyr/border collie mix.  She makes me feel safe like a pyr can do, she keeps me on my toes like a BC can and she's fluffy and silly BUT she is the devil.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not trying to sound like Pollyanna but I think we're all sort of saying similar things and digging a great big hole around us.

Kristina, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Not one bit.  We're all entitled to opinions and the world would be a pretty lame place without different views. JMHO.

Thank you. Funny I never wanted a fluffy dog (cause of the work!)and the ONLY one issue with the Pyrs I had was all the hair. Before I found them, I swore off long haired dogs. I'm still jealous of all you w/short haired dogs that is practically no maintenance and doesn't drag in the whole backyard. BUT, I had to look past the hair because I just had to have one. Today I was hugging them, yes I was can you believe it?! they still even smell good, and anyway that wicked fur sure does make them cuddly!

[Moni]

Hahaha, that is funny Kristina!  I'm the opposite about Tenchi.  My only issue with Danes is that they have short hair!   Those little hairs weedle into everything, like cat hair!  Give me tumbleweeds any day.  lol

[Brownis15]

I have had an entire year with lots of pitbulls at the H.S. and only noticed one major difference between them and other dogs. They went kennel crazy a lot faster. They began cage fighting only a couple of days after being there. Not ALL of them, but many of them. But in temp testing, with PEOPLE they did amazing. I have been bitten by more labs and huskies than I can count, and heelers.

As an owner of a GSD, I understand the frustration, PB owners face. It is tough when you see people drag their kids to the side so Atlas can walk by... it's not fair. I have a book, which is really helpful, full of dog stats, it is called "fatal dog attacks" and it lists in detail every dog attack that has been fatal in the past 20 years. ALL of the ones I have read have been the owners fault, not the dog. One GSD killed a baby after the owner admittingly didnt feed it for 5 days, then she left her baby and dog home alone while she went shopping!! She came home and the baby was dead. HELLO!!!??? And this stat is put on websites and places without the slightest hint of what REALLY happened.

I personally LIKE owning a dog that people steer clear from, it not only gives me a chance to educate people and break the stereotype, but when needed, Atlas will protect my husband, and scare off people wanting to hurt him.

[Brownis15]

I should also mention that the pits reputation has been positive in some aspects. Many K-9 schools train them for protection work now, because they have the same effect a GSD/Mal/Dob/Rottie do, a cop walks in with a pit or one of the others at his side, people are going to listen, and not try any funny business. From what I have heard, they excell in it. And also, every pit I have had in my dog aggression classes has been rehabilitated much faster than other breeds. They are so willing to please.

[mama23+pyrs2]

I should also mention that the pits reputation has been positive in some aspects. Many K-9 schools train them for protection work now, because they have the same effect a GSD/Mal/Dob/Rottie do, a cop walks in with a pit or one of the others at his side, people are going to listen, and not try any funny business. From what I have heard, they excell in it. And also, every pit I have had in my dog aggression classes has been rehabilitated much faster than other breeds. They are so willing to please.

That is good to hear. What a horrible story about the GSD and baby, good God that is just sick. When we were little my Grandma had a GSD, Sugar- and oh how she loved her. She had a few moments with some of the kids that were a bit negative and she was food aggressive I remember, we weren't ever to go around her bowl, but for the most part she was a great dog. I know I was never afraid of her as a young child, I loved her. My mom also had one when we were just babies, it could have been a mix I don't remember but the pics of him were gorgeous and he used to watch and guard us when we were outside or anything she said. I've seen pics of him 'babysitting' us. He was a great dog too. GSD's are another breed we considered getting. We went through several on the list before we (or I really haha) settled on the Pyrs. There are so many I am interested in.