More Bear news

[jennifer]

We're six days on the pheno and he's only had one seizure that we know of (Saturday night), which is great. My step-son is coming home from school at lunch to check on him and give them a pee (Bear on pheno is a pee monster). 

We've ruled out environmental causes and dystemper.  He was positive for Lyme last spring and took antibiotics for it but was completely non-symptomatic.  Since he has since developed no other symptoms of Lyme disease the vet doesn't think that's a possibility.  No neuro referral yet.  The pheno seems to be working, but I have a new, probably related concern... Bear is essentially losing control of his back end.    I'm not exaggerating - he struggles to get up, falls going up and down the stairs, struggles to get on the sofa or bed, and is expressing a lot more gas than usual.  When he goes up the stairs he lets an audible fart at each step. You can imagine the reaction this gets from the goony guys in the house (I'm surrounded by testosterone).     He's kind of a goofy guy normally and a little clumsy, so he has a soft benchmark for judging this kind of stuff, but yesterday while outside he jerked his head to the side to bite at a bee  and completely lost his balance and fell, landing hard on the pavement.  Plus he seems to be scratching and biting at his hips and thighs a lot and Sunday I was giving him a light massage and when I would get near his hips and hind-end his back legs would twitch.  I've spoken to a tech and a doc at my vet's office.  It may be a side-effect of the pheno, a lingering effect of the seizures, maybe some of each, or something completely new.  Sigh.  Today he was a bit better - a little more energy and not quite as pathetic, but I made an appointment for him to see his vet on Sunday morning (she's on vacation this week, of course ).  He's letharic and clingy, but we expected that with the pheno.  No other alarming symptoms and, like I said, no sign of seizures yet this week.  But I want a vet look-see and opinion on this hind end stuff.

Nakita is doing well. She's asking for more snuggles than usual but hasn't growled or snapped at Bear again (thank god!).  Probably because I'm feeling a bit more confident in this new situation -- thanks in large part to BPO-ers!  She's got a little energy though, since our walks this week have slowed down and been shorter to accommodate the stumbling, less energetic Bear.

All the info and support from fellow BPOers has been so helpful.  And the added help from those with seizure experience has been invaluable.    Just wanted to update ya'll on how he's doing. 

[patrick]

It wouldn't hurt to test for Lyme since he had it before It can recur and with a variety of symptoms not just the lameness and it can get in the nervous system and brain.  A long shot but all this would sure worry me.  I would use one of these labs and not just a snap or C6

http://dogsandtickdisease.googlepages.com/testlaboratories

[Sillygoose]

Oh I hope everything works out. He looks so lovable.

[People Whisperer]

Poor Bear! 
Please let us know what the vet has to say on Sunday

[shine]

The clumsiness and ataxia (hind end weakness) is a side effect of the Phenobarb.  Ataxia is a common permanent side effect of Kbr (potassium bromide)...but is usually transient with Phenobarb.  It should get better over the next couple weeks....most dogs need some time to adjust, because Phenobarb has a pretty strong sedative effect.  You may also see some changes in his personality & behavior....th ese are more likely to be permanent. It's unlikely that his weakness/clumsiness is post-ictal...unless a dog clusters like mad, all post-ictal symptoms should be over in a day or so.

Oh yeah.....Exces sive peeing is also a very common (and permanent) side effect of Phenobarb...it makes them very thirsty, you will see Bear's water consumption increase alot.  

What to expect when/if you see a vet neurologist:  First, be prepared for a staggering bill.  They can be incredibly expensive.  It is not uncommon for a visit to cost $300-400.  They will test Bear's reflexes for neurological damage...but you can do this yourself (although it is probably best to wait until his Phenobarb side effects have lessened).  Have him stand up...testing one leg at a time, grasp his "ankle" firmly with one hand and with the other take his paw and turn it over so his "knuckles" are on the floor.  He should flip the paw back immediately.  Any hesitation or inability to flip the paw back may indicate brain damage.

A vet neurologist may suggest an MRI to check for brain tumors, hydrocephalus, porto-systemic shunt, etc....but keep in mind that any of these conditions would almost certainly show symptoms other than seizures (behavior changes, vision loss, falling over, circling, etc)....and none of them respond very well to treatment.  Unfortunately, one of the toughest things about having a seizure dog is weighing the odds and benefits of treatment.

If he continues to seize, don't despair.  Like I said in my other post, it is generally harder to get control of seizures in large breeds, and they are more likely to cluster.  It's also very common to have to play around with meds for awhile before you achieve good control; it took 16 months with Samson, but then we made it 2 years without a seizure!

[jennifer]

Great info, Shine. Thank you so much. A lot of what you've said I've read in my research, but it's best - and most comforting - to get it from someone with direct experience. I've done the reflext test and he seems fine. Our vet knows my financial situation and I think will refer to neuro as a last measure. My gut tells me it's a wait-and-see situation and we just have to get used to this 'new' Bear, and adapt accordingly. 

[Jas2Cats]

Hang in there~!  It will take a couple of weeks for Bear's body to get used to the Pheno'.  Yes, the hind end problems could be a side effect of it, and, it can also be residual effects of his seizures.  It took Woody a few weeks to get settled into the Pheno' when he started (around 8 or 9 years ago now).  Oh, and Bear is probably not feeling too great as his body adjusts. Plus, the Vet's need to find the correct amount of Pheno' for Bear, and even knowing his weight, this may take time as his body adjusts.  You don't say if Bear takes one dose a day, or two, but, I found with Woody, 2 doses at a lower level work much better than one.  It seemed that the 1 wore off in the evenings.  The pee'ing thing will get better, but, you will find he drinks excessive amounts of water (therefore will have more output) as a permanent side effect of the meds.  For me, this side effect was much better than watching Woody have Gran-mal seizures.

As far as causes for the seizures, there may be no identifiable ones to find.  My vet told me that this is the case in many male dogs between 2-6 who start having seizures.  I had all the neuro tests done with Woody, and the results were just that I had A LOT less $$$ in the bank.  We never figured out what the causes of his seizures were.

Good luck with Bear, it's hard to see, but, with regular doses of Pheno', it should get better in a few weeks :-)

Sorry, this got a bit long~!

[jennifer]

You don't say if Bear takes one dose a day, or two,

Bear takes 200mg two times a day.  I know it will take a while to find the right dosage, etc., and yes, the peeing is a welcome alternative to seizures.

[jennifer]

Took Bear to the vet yesterday for a check-in. Negative re lyme, thyroid, and not ready to consider a neuro visit.  We're lowering his dose of pheno by 1/4 to help alleviate some of the ataxia. Will watch for seizures and return to vet in two weeks. He's otherwise doing okay - sleeping better the last few nights and can tolerate almost a one-mile walk. We'll lose our deposit due to the carpet, but it's a welcome price to pay for a happy, healthy Bear. We're lovin' our boy.  

[GoldenPyrs]

Poor guy, I hope that Bear is feeling better soon.  BTW, we own a couple of rentals so we know this from experience.  If you call out a carpet cleaner, they can use black light to look for the urine stains and then pre-treat, clean & deodorize them so that they really are almost as good as new.  It works wonders.  Good luck!