Pyr crates and barking

[Momdog]

I have been reading about the barking and the collar.  since I should be bringing Buddy to a home that is in a residential area the barking is something that I worry about, but we have lots of other dogs that bark in the neighborhood, so I don't know how this is going to work, and we have a very small house. We have five people and two chihuahuas in 998 square feet.  So adding Buddy and Dollie to the mix is going to be interesting.  I have thought about crating him, but he has never been inside.  What size crate do you get for a full grown Pyr that is huge?  Also I would think that if I crate Buddy, I will need to Crate Dollie.  I am trying to do the best for the dogs, but not overly annoy the neighbors.  This board is so helpful and your pictures are great.  I forgot the camera this weekend.  I hope to remember next weekend.  There is just so much to do.  Sometimes you can't remember every thing.  I know this process is going to be interesting but I don't think that I will be using the colar.  He has been traumatized enough losing his owner.  I do think that a lot of people do not research the breed before they get a dog, they do it spontaneously and the dog is the one that suffers

Bev- Mom Dog

[GreatPyr]

I have the Jumbo crate for Bear,its made for up to a 200 pound dog!Its huge in the house though,its like a gorilla cage..ha..ha.. If your dog isnt that big since he is grown you can get one weight appropriate,Bear is a pup but I got the largest they make in the crates because I dont know how big he will be and I didnt want to have to buy another one.I got mine at Petsmart.

Sounds like you are preparing and thats great.
And yes my peeve is people getting dogs and not researching the breed enough to know if they will work for there situation/family as an adult..but of course in your situation you are taking in your moms dogs which is different,no choice,someone has to look after them and who else better for the job...you are a great person for making sure Moms dogs are cared for.

[pyr4me]

Has either dog been crate-trained before? Or will this be new to them? If they haven't been crated before, there is a training process to help them associate the crate with being a good place to be.  I used a crate with Tipper when I was training him because he was not housetrained and was a chewer. But Jenny has never been destructive in the house, is housetrained, and I never felt like I needed to crate her. A crate should allow enough room for the dog to turn around, lay down, etc.  But not so much room that it loses the "den-like" feeling. Are you hoping that being in a crate will prevent some barking? I wasn't sure from your post.

While it's true that as a breed Pyrs are barkers, there are individual differences regarding how much a pyr barks.  Jenny is really not that much of a barker. When people or dogs pass by our house, yes, she often barks (but so does my other dog), but she sleeps inside and doesn't bark at night, however, she is alert. She is not a nuisance barker by any means. When I tell her it's ok, she stops barking.  You may find that Buddy is not going to be the nuisance to your neighbors that you are imagining, but it's good to be prepared in case he is a Pyr who does bark more. I also would expect that he will bark more at first because he won't be used to the noises of your house.

If you are planning on keeping him outside at night, then that's a different story. Pyrs are bred to bark at night--a lot--their barking lets the critters that might threaten their flock know that a big dog is on duty.    I don't think that there is much anyone would be able to do to curtail outside nighttime Pyr barking, it's what they are bred to do.

[maxsmom]

If you have neighborhood dogs who bark, Buddy will probably bark when he hears them, Jake does.  I don't think the crate will help you at all with the barking, though.  Crated or not a dog will bark if they feel the need and being confined in a crate, where they can't move around the house to attempt to find the source or see whatever it is that is causing them to "alert" can make the barking worse.
I have never crated any of my 3 current dogs, except Jake, who was destroying my house, due to separation anxiety.  We only did it twice, because he was hurting himself getting out of the crate.  He raked 2 long gouges all the way down his back squeezing out between the top and the sides, after he broke the crate and snapped the zip ties we had put on it every 4-5 inches.  The crate went away and we started using meds to calm him down.  Luckily, he doesn't need them anymore and has adapted.  I adopted Cody and Jake as adults, not housebroken or used to living inside and they both adapted really quickly.  Neither had more than 2 accidents in the house.  Adults are usually a whole lot easier than puppies in that regard.  Have you introduced Buddy and Dollie to your pups yet? Kathy

[GreatPyr]

Has either dog been crate-trained before? Or will this be new to them? If they haven't been crated before, there is a training process to help them associate the crate with being a good place to be.  I used a crate with Tipper when I was training him because he was not housetrained and was a chewer. But Jenny has never been destructive in the house, is housetrained, and I never felt like I needed to crate her. A crate should allow enough room for the dog to turn around, lay down, etc.  But not so much room that it loses the "den-like" feeling. Are you hoping that being in a crate will prevent some barking? I wasn't sure from your post.

While it's true that as a breed Pyrs are barkers, there are individual differences regarding how much a pyr barks.  Jenny is really not that much of a barker. When people or dogs pass by our house, yes, she often barks (but so does my other dog), but she sleeps inside and doesn't bark at night, however, she is alert. She is not a nuisance barker by any means. When I tell her it's ok, she stops barking.  You may find that Buddy is not going to be the nuisance to your neighbors that you are imagining, but it's good to be prepared in case he is a Pyr who does bark more. I also would expect that he will bark more at first because he won't be used to the noises of your house.

If you are planning on keeping him outside at night, then that's a different story. Pyrs are bred to bark at night--a lot--their barking lets the critters that might threaten their flock know that a big dog is on duty.    I don't think that there is much anyone would be able to do to curtail outside nighttime Pyr barking, it's what they are bred to do.

I am glad we think alike on the pyr barking at night theory.

[Momdog]

Buddy and Dollie have not been introduced to the two little ones.  Mouse had a terrible staff infection on her back and she looks like a mouse and I hope that Buddy does not think she is the real thing.  Pearl is just the opposite and has more hair then she knows what to do with, she looks kind of like Gizmo from the gremlin movie. 

Buddy and Dollie have not had any formal training, so I know that this is going to be an interesting journey.  I am just trying to ask as many questions as I can now, because I know that I will have a ton of questions once they get to my house.

We are building a new fence that will provide more security and we are going to have a large dog house built.  I would like to leave then as outdoor dogs since that is all that they have ever known.  Buddy is also a chewer if anything is left in the yard hoses plastic pop bottles they automatically become chew toys.  Any suggestions other then keeping the yard cleaned up. 

[GreatPyr]

How tall is your fence in refrence to your moms fence where they are use to being in?

also,About the toys...I would just keep them picked up best you can,my son has cried many times with chewed up legs off Ninja Turtle or head missing of GI Joe,he has now learned to pick them up and put them away or they might not be available in the morning to play with

Hubby just made the staement this morning how we have adjusted some things in our life for the dogs and being a doggy family ... of what was once a 1 doggy family now 3!

[Momdog]

How tall is your fence in refrence to your moms fence where they are use to being in?

They are used to a six foot chain link fence, but they have no neighbors and are twenty miles outside of town in the the middle of no where.

We are putting in a wooden fence because we are a few blocks from a high school and there is a lot of foot traffic.  We thought that it would probably be best if the fence had more privacy. 

[pyr4me]

We are building a new fence that will provide more security and we are going to have a large dog house built.  I would like to leave then as outdoor dogs since that is all that they have ever known. 

If you are concerned about Buddy barking then keeping them as outdoor dogs will be much more difficult. Buddy will bark at night and you and your neighbors might find that hard. The only thing that I have heard of that helps curtail Pyr night barking is bringing them indoors.  

It is my understanding that a lot of dogs who have lived as outdoor dogs can transition nicely to being indoor dogs. Are you wanting to keep them as outdoor dogs because that is what they are used to or because your house is full already? If it is because that's what they are used to, it seems like they are going to be making a new start at your house and you have an opportunity to make some new "rules" about what happens at your house...does that make sense? So a new rule being that they lived outdoors all the time at your mom's house, but they sleep indoors at your house and can spend the daytime hours outside.

[Momdog]

Buddy will bark at night and you and your neighbors might find that hard. The only thing that I have heard of that helps curtail Pyr night barking is bringing them indoors.  

Are you wanting to keep them as outdoor dogs because that is what they are used to or because your house is full already?

Our house is small 998 square feet and since there are five humans and two attack ankle biters, I would think it would be better for Buddy and Dolly to only come in at night and maybe be crated.  I can't imagine what it would be like if they had an accident in the house.  I have had larger dogs in the past, but I have always had more room.  Buddy is just soooo big.  I can't imagine how large the crate would have to be. 

I am trying to what is best for Buddy but also be a considerate neighbor, we have so many in the neighborhood that are not.  I am just trying to gather as much information as possible so I can be a good Pyr Mom. 

[GoldenPyrs]

Hi Bev, a few yrs ago we were in temporary housing (5 humans & 2 big dogs in 750 sq ft) for 8 months while our new house was remodeled and we found in our case that the crates were more cumbersome than the dogs on their own.  That was just our situation though.  I'm all in favor of crating if it's necessary to protect the pet or the house, but you may find that Buddy & Dollie adapt to being inside quite quickly.  Sam came to us from rescue as an adult & we don't think that he'd ever been an indoor dog, though he only had one accident in our house.  We just kept him close to us and gave him lots of potty breaks and he got the idea very, very quickly.  You may find the same, so I'd suggest trying it out by keeping them in the same room with you in the evenings, watching them closely & taking them outside often at first and then you can decide if crating them works best for your situation or not.  Regarding crate sizes?  Yes, they do need to be able to lay down comfortably & turn around, but I'd also be sure that they can stand up without having to duck their heads & I look for good ventilation to keep them cool.  The crate size will all depend upon their actual sizes, so it's a good idea to either take their measurements or take them along to select the crate if that's possible.   That might also give you some idea of how well they take to the crate. 

[Amy (guffer)]

Hi Bev!  I just wanted to say that I agree with everything that's been said so far.  My 2 pyrs were probably outside dogs until I got them (they didn't know how to walk up or down stairs and at first seemed confused by being inside the house) but it only took them about a week to get used to being inside dogs.  At first they barked a lot at night (while inside!) and hubby and I wondered if we'd made the right choice in breeds because we also live in a small subdivision.  After a few days we tried using a fan to create white noise, and this helped a lot.  Also, we just told them to be quite each time they barked, and eventually it worked.  Now they come upstairs with us every evening and watch TV on the sofas with us, and then they just fall asleep quietly.  No barking at all now!  It's great!

So I guess my point is that just because they were outside dogs before, it doesn't mean that they can't learn to be happy and quiet in your house at night!  I really hope everything works out for you! 

[London_Pyr_Lover]

My crate is big enough for me to curl up in, and I'm 5'9", and 169 lbs.     I chose a crate this big because for starters, I didn't know how big Naja would be when fully grown, and also so that she has more then enough room to move around, change lying positions, and to snuggle with Moo.    I rarely ever crate her nowadays.  Usually only when I'm working nights or whenever else she can't sleep with me.  I still don't fully trust her in the house on her own though.   

I think getting a crate is a good idea, crate training is relatively easy if you're consistant with it.  Start off by only feeding and giving Buddy water in the crate.  Give him Toys to chew on in his crate, and lots of yummy treats.  I like to keep Naja's crate covered with a blanket so that it has more of a "den" like feel to it inside.  I think the crate will save you quite a few noise complaints, and even more headaches due to barking.  Naja is what you would call a Nuisance barker when left to her own devices at night.  She will bark uninterrupted for what feels like hours.  Luckily we really don't have any neighbors, and I never leave her outside for more then 5 minutes at a time at night.

Oh I almost forgot to mention, I always keep a fan going trained on the crate when Naja is in there, it helps to keep her cool. 

[Momdog]

I wanted to thank you for all the advice on crates and crate training.  Also Buddy looks a lot like Naja, he is very sleek.  I hope to get pictures this weekend. 

[MollyGirl]

I will say that Phoebe barks more when she is not in her crate at night, on occasion she has come up in our room with me while hubby is downstairs and she must be on higher guard upstairs because she never barks downstairs at night.  I would like to have her in our room at night eventually but not if she is going to bark. In the crate she stays for now.  Also I bought my crate on ebay and got a good deal on it new in the box.