Confused about food--yet again!

[pyr4me]

So, I have recently become obsessed with making sure I am feeding the "right" food to Jenny and Tipper--in the sense that I have read way too much stuff, looked at too many ratings, and am now thoroughly confused! 

I looked at the dog food analysis website ratings and discovered that Innova Large Breed formula is only a 4 star rating (out of 6), mainly, it seemed for not having a high enough meat content. A lot of the grain-free foods made a 6 star rating, but then add a caution about high protein/calcium content for big paw puppies, but which made me nervous about it for big paw adults, too.

Tipper has done amazingly well for the last 6 years on Innova Adult (5 stars) but when I read about rotating foods periodically to give another protein source I tried both Innova EVO red bites (6 stars)and Merrick Wilderness Blend (5 stars), and he loved them both. Jenny has tried the Wilderness Blend and loved it as well. I also give both of them some Merrick canned foods as a topper to their dry about 2 times a week. Jenny also gets salmon oil daily.

Luckily, neither of them seem to suffer from any particular allergies/sensitivities and seem to adjust well when I try new foods with them. I know that I am worrying about this way too much--how much difference could there really be between a 5 and 6 star food, right? But then again, I put a lot of thought into my own and my family's food and try to eat organic, etc., why shouldn't I try to give my dogs the very best, too? (I'm trying really hard to convince myself that I am not obsessed and crazy!  )

I think also I worry because Jenny did not have a good nutritional start for her first two years, so I want to make sure that I am giving her what she needs and since she is my first big paw, I want to be especially aware.

It seems like the best thing is to go grain-free, but for some reason it makes me nervous. My vet has stressed to me that I need to keep Jenny at a healthy weight so as not to stress her joints, etc., and of course, for all the regular health reasons that dogs should not be overweight. What would I need to be aware of when giving a large breed a grain-free, high protein food? Supplements? Are there any "cons" to going grain-free with a big paw? I was considering EVO red bites, Wellness CORE, Solid Gold Barking at the Moon, and Nature's Variety Instinct. Wellness Core has the lowest fat content. I know that my local PSP carries most of those, but they don't carry Orijen.

I know this was long and rambling...tha nks for reading!

[Nina]

I think the reason they say to watch the protein content when they are puppies is so they don't gain too much weight. I'm a complete no grain feeder(raw feeder). I now currently feed my cat orijen. Harley used to get Evo. I wouldn't worry about the protein content. The only thing to remember when feeding no grain is your pups won't need to eat as much as they are absorbing all they eat. Also the EVO red meat diet is higher in fat, Harley gained a few pounds on that formula. They do have a reduced fat EVO diet but Hars didn't like that one 

Nina

[Guardian Angel's White lightning]

BUT...if protein makes them grow to fast, then how come when  feeding raw with is mostly protein they don't grow so fast?

[Nina]

BUT...if protein makes them grow to fast, then how come when  feeding raw with is mostly protein they don't grow so fast?

Sorry I kinda worded that badly. I would worry more for the calorie intake vs protein. You don't want your puppy to gain to much weight to fast as their bones can't handle the weight. My vet feeds raw to dogs right from puppyhood reguardless of the breed. And he has only had giant breed dogs that live past the normal avg age. To me dogs are carnivores and are meant to have protein and a puppy is going to grow as tall as it is gentically predisposed to reguardless of the protein content. However the weight does need to me controlled to prevent bone damage.

[pyr4me]

Also the EVO red meat diet is higher in fat, Harley gained a few pounds on that formula. They do have a reduced fat EVO diet but Hars didn't like that one 

Nina

Yes, I was noticing that the fat content of most of the grain-free foods is higher. Both EVO red meat and Nature's Variety Instinct Duck are 22% fat, Barking at the Moon is 20%, and Wellness Core is 14% fat, which is part of the reason I was looking into switching to Wellness. Innova Adult is also 14% fat, which is what Tipper is used to.

[mastiffmomoftwo]

BUT...if protein makes them grow to fast, then how come when  feeding raw with is mostly protein they don't grow so fast?

Raw is MUCH different than kibble.
Raw has a very high water content.
Kibble is dry and has a higher protein content.
Dogs run into trouble with grain free kibble because they
do not get enough water to help the kidney's process the food.
The kidney's are what filter the system.

When feeding raw, there is high water, and the diets I have seen incorporate veggies and fruit as well as other supplements.

The holistic pet store that I go to says that they are seeing a higher rate of clients coming in whose pets are going thru kidney problems because they are feeding high protein/grain free.

Just some food for thought.

High protein in a giant breed's diet does cause them to grow faster, and it also relates to fat content & carbs.

My Beau gained 5 pounds a week when he was a pup.
The vet kept telling me to slow his growing down.  I couldn't.  I feed a 22% protein and 12% fat with a calorie count of 387 per cup.  Can't get much lower than that.
The trouble giant breeds run into is when growing too fast their ligaments / muscles / tendons grow slower than the bone. 

These pictures show what can happen, and how the legs look after feeding a proper diet and wrapping legs etc.

Before




After




Before



After

[pyr4me]

So, it sounds like there's a possibility of overworking the kidneys with a high protein food?? What percentage of protein is high enough to provide dogs with the amount they need for optimum health, but not so high as to stress the kidneys? 

[pyr4me]

Just a clarification here...high protein diets are not a problem for dogs with normal kidney function.  Dogs with kidney disease or damage may need lower protein diets, but high protein doesn't cause kidney damage.

Thanks, Holly!

[Guardian Angel's White lightning]

OH....i gottcha, so having the extra water content, and the balance ratio that works. I did notice at the show today a pup the same age as Titan and he had no muscle, all jiggly fat rolling around, plus he weighed 30 pounds less than titan too!!!!!   I must tell all of you...titan has a nice a** he has such muscle,..it is so great...