Author Topic: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general  (Read 7082 times)

Offline Janisjin

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Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« on: August 02, 2005, 11:11:13 pm »
Hello everyone:

I currently have two large breed dogs. One is a 12 week old akita and one is a 5 1/2 year old akita/shepherd mix. My older dog is currently receiving Flexicose (after doing a lot of research, I think that this is a great product).

However, my trainer for my pup recommended shark cartilage and vitamin C (2500mg). I was wondering if anyone else has used shark cartilage (and if so, what brand). I did some research online and came across Level 5000 Liquid Health (http://www.allpetsconsidered.com/xq/aspx/pID.92/id.1/catid.7/subid.53/page./qx/productdetails.htm) and was wondering if anyone has used this. I've heard good things about Liquid Health's Glucosamine formula, but only from the pet store that was trying to sell it to me.

Also, is giving my 12 week old pup shark cartilage going to help him at this young age? The vet I go to is great, but she doesn't have much experience with akitas (in fact, there aren't a lot of akitas where I live at all) and I don't know how much experience she has with show dogs (not sure if that makes a difference).

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any first hand experience with these supps and can recommend a certain brand. In the seas of brands, I'm not sure which ones to trust (as, sadly, vitamins/supplements are becoming a great market for rip off companies looking to make a quick buck).

Thanks in advance!
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion"
-- Unknown

Offline shangrila

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2005, 07:39:08 am »
I use K-9 Liquid Health Glucosamine with Chondroitin and MSM. It is the same brand as the product you mentioned, but has a way less intense concentration. We have been been happy with it. When zoey gets older and starts to show joint pain again, we might bump her up to the more hard-core concentration, but in the meantime, I don't see a reason to use something so strong.

As far as supplementing you pup, I don't think that supplementing your puppy will hurt it, but there is no way to tell if it will help it either if it's not displaying any signs of joint pain.
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Offline mastiffmommy

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 10:42:08 am »
Hi, I am not familiar with shark cartilage, but now I am getting curious and will do some research lol....

I give mine both a joint supplement and vit C, well some other stuff too, but as to your questiong.

Recommended dose for vit. C in puppies is

8-10 weeks 250 mg daily
10-12 weeks 500 mg daily
12 weeks - adults 1000 mg daily

as for the joint supplement, I give Flexicose, which is recommended by a canine nutritionist called Linda Arndt, I have listened to her and her advise for many many years since I have had Giant breeds almost all my life and have always been very happy with the advice she gives.

Here is her website if you are interested, it has lots and lots of useful info for large to giant breed dogs

http://www.greatdanelady.com/

Marit
what the lion is to a cat, the mastiff is to a dog

Offline brigid67

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 08:20:33 pm »
I add MSM for joints....I also give "missing Link"  which has gluc added and omegas (although the omegas are from flaxseed which is not has well absorbed as fish oil omegas and/or green tripe.  So I also add this.  I also add Vit C ester - liquid form.  I get all of my supplements from the health food store except the missing link of course
Timmie

Offline Janisjin

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 10:05:55 pm »
thanks for the tip on renew!

brigid67--what doses of vit c ester do you give? I always have a hard time translating human doses to puppy and dog doses.
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion"
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Offline mastiffmommy

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 10:24:55 pm »
janisjin...... . I think in general it is said that from 12 weeks - grown 1000 mg of vit. c is a good amount. And if you use the "Ester" to half the dosage, so 500 mg.

Marit
what the lion is to a cat, the mastiff is to a dog

Offline slickerk

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2005, 09:39:43 am »
I had someone tell me that they gave all of thier Rotts shark oil. It was good for thier joints, thier coats and they would never get worms of any kind. But I haven't read into it yet and haven't come across the oil either.

Offline brigid67

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2005, 01:14:22 pm »
Vit C Ester dosage is had to find and translate it into doggie form.. Both my vet and breeder told me that Vit C is not toxic.  It will cause mild diarrhea in dogs if that happens then back off the dossage slightly until the stools are firm again.  It is also an excelent Vit.  if the dog is undergoing stressfull situations and you can increase it to meet the stress.  I love Dr Billinghurt"s Book "Give Your Dog A Bone"  He talks about Vit supplements.  He states:

"Vit C at the rate of 50-100mg / kg will fo no harm and can only ensure the continuing good health for your dog.  As your dog's stress levels increade, so you should increase the amount of Vit C given.

Slight Stress - 100mg / kg

Mod Stress - 200 mg/kg

Heavy Stress - 300 mg/kg

Very Heavy Stress - 350mg /kg

As you increase the dose ate of Vit C, it is important to divide the daily dose.  in other wordes, for slight stress, divide into two doses, with mod stress, divide into 4 doses, and for heavy stress, divide into six doses.  As the stress passes, gradually reduc the dse back to the non-stressed dosage.

Use the non-stress dosage for the dog eating a diet based on raw meaty bones, etc.  That is, a primitive or natural diet containing plenty of Vit C... For the dog eating a predominately commercial dog food diet, or a mostly cooked diet, the minimun amount recomended as a supplement  is the level for moderate stress, that is, 100 - 200 mg/kg daily.

Vit C exists in several different forms .  Vit C itself is asorbic acid.  The two common salts of Vit C are sodiuom ascorbate and calcium ascorbate.  There is another form of Vit C called ester C.

Mostly it does not matter which form you use.  However there are some exceptions.  For example, it would be better to give a dog with arthritis either Calcium ascorbate or ester C or perhaps sodium ascorbate rather than ascorbic acid.

Youwould not give sodium ascorbate to a dog with heart problems because of the ppresence of sodium.  In a young dog with hip dysplasia due to calcium excess, you would not give calcium ascorbate."

Anyway, just a little info on Vit C.  You guys should read the book it was very good about dog nutrition.
Timmie

Offline NoDogNow

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Re: Shark Cartilage / Flexicose/ Joint Supps in general
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2005, 06:27:49 pm »
OK, I'm brand new, and don't have a dog right now.  (I'm researching breeds and have to find a new apartment first anyway.)  But the rest of the family does, and this whole "joint support" question is one I'm familiar with. 

First:  No matter what anyone tells you (even your vet), the difference in absorption rates of glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM are negligable.  This is because glucosamine these substances are NOT absorbed directly into the cartilage, as vitamin c is into the blood stream where it's picked up by cellular processes.  Glucosamine and the other joint supplements infuse the synovial fluid AROUND the joints, rather than being absorbed into the cartilage via the blood stream, and this happens over a long period of time, though shorter than in humans. 

Second:  Shark cartilage, despite it's claims, is NOT the best source of chondroitin.  You're better off with a glucosamine/chondroitin mix, and leave the poor sharks in the ocean.

My sister has two enormous mixed breeds that each get 750 ml a day, mixed up in the wet food they get in the morning.   My mom has an Eskie, who just loves milk, so Mom generally blends a quart of milk with a 2000 ml of glucosamine/chondroitin and 1000 ml of MSM, and lets him have about 3 ounces in a bowl in the morning while she's eating her breakfast, and another 3 ounces at night, while everyone's eating dinner. This actually works much better than the wet food plan, but my sisters dogs don't like milk.

If you're giving your dogs this stuff, I hope you're taking it too!  My famiily first learned about it because my sister has had osteoarthritis since she was nine, and we discovered how much it helped her.  In fact, the mere fact that she can HANDLE her large dogs, rather than the toys she had always had to have, before is because of the improvements in her joints, and her overall health because the glucosamine has made it possible for her to go on long walks and cut their nails, and hold the brush to groom them! 

Sheryl, Dogless and sad