Author Topic: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!  (Read 2422 times)

Offline Ali

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HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« on: April 16, 2008, 01:00:18 pm »
So Tani is about 4, and Kai is 4 months. Tonight was the second incident in which Kai started yelping and slinking over to me with a BLOODY punture/cut on her muzzle! Like, drip dropping a path along the floor. The first time was about three weeks ago and there is very visible hairless scar there now. Both incidents have happened with the dogs out around the family, although no one was specifically watching them at the time. Here is what I know: Tani took to Kai really well, right away. Tani is really NOT agressive in general - at the most, I've heard her do a throaty low growl at what ever cat is coming too close to her food at chow time, but it's so far from "food agression" that I hesitate to even mention it. Kai plays HARD and I have seen Tani put up with a LOT of nonsense. I took Kai to the vet after the first time and she said that Kai pushed Tani too far, and Tani had to make her boundary clear. I understand that - I really do. But OMG, my sweet little obnoxious puppy was DRIPPING blood on the floor! It was horrifying! It's all relative - I know some of you have been in the midst of big dog scuffles (shirtless in the yard, perhaps  ;).) So far, I've put an ice pack and pressure on Kai's wound, and crated her when the bleeding stopped. I haven't done anything with Tani. So what do I do? Do I correct Tani? Do I correct Kai when she gets too rough? Do I just suck it up, stop being a wimp, and let my dogs set their own pack order? WAHHH! My baby is bleeding! I wanted to put a bandaid on it, but my husband laughed at me.  :'( ???
Ali
mom of 4 humans AND
Tani (TAH-nee or rhymes with "Bonnie")- Aussie/Pittie?Boxer?Mutt!
Kai - Aussie/Dobie
Kenji - big ol' black cat
Mika and Nishi - kitty sisters, foster failures!
Tasia Ladysnake - ball python

Offline Saint and Mal mom

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Re: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2008, 01:07:36 pm »
I'm sure it's scary seeing your pup bleeding. None of us likes to see our babies hurt in any way.

I'm going to put it simply; Tani's 4 and bigger than your pup. If she WANTED to really hurt him, she would have. Because whatever the squabble was over resulted in 1 puncture wound at it was on the muzzle, not some vital part of the body, that says to me, he was bugging her and she snapped at him. Totally appropriate on her part. No, I wouldn't correct her. Kai's a pup and she was correcting HIM. But next time, if you can tell he's hacking her off, give her a chance to breathe so SHE doesn't have to correct him; you do it. Distract him and take him outside to play and let her have a moment to herself. Or give him a toy or bone to go play with. We don't him to think he can bug her as much as he wants with no consequences. She has her limits, and it's totally understandable the way she reacted. Again, if she really wanted to hurt him, she has the physical ability to do it. The fact is, she didn't. In fact, his injury could be accidental. Maybe she went to snap or nip at him or near him, and he moved and her tooth caught his muzzle. Totally likely and happens all the time. If an injury is to the ear, muzzle, cheek, etc., it's usually the result of a careless tooth or claw. Not the result of a vicious biting or attack.  ;) Don't sweat it too much, but give Tani a break when you notice he's bugging her.
Marissa

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Offline kealoha812

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Re: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2008, 07:59:53 pm »
I agree. He would have hurt her much worse if he wanted to. with that being said... you really do need to watch them for a while. Here's why... 1- If the puppy at some point decides she wants to fight for alpha position as she gets older, it would get nasty since she has already been hurt by him before. Small chance she would try it, but I've seen it happen before. 2- IS there anything medically wrong with your older dog? Many times a dog will bite because they are in pain and the younger dog hurt them by playing. Ex: sever ear infection and the puppy pulls on the ear. 3-a dog will warn another in a set series of events... low growl, louder growl, snarl, air snap, etc... they should do al these things before they actually touch the other dog. Since you werent in the room, it is possible this happened and your younger dog just doesnt have that inate ability to know when to stop. If that is the case, she will most likely get hurt again. Was she kept with her littermates until at least 8 weeks where she learned how to play? Many dogs taken from their litter before 8 weeks have trouble with this. They have to be taught how to play bite by their owner. If this is the case, she probably play bites you too hard too. Another option is that your older dog isnt doing all the warning signs before the actually bite happens. In that case, I think you should be correcting her. Either way,  would talk to an animal trainer immediately. I had 2 goldens a few years ago, one being a foster that had been taken from her litter early and then not really socialized well. She didnt get the whole doggie play thing. She adored my other golden but accidentily ripped a hole in her neck. And IM talking big here. A grand surgery and 3 months of healing time was necessary before she was allowed near the dog again. Sometimes letting them work it out on their own means lots of vet visits... Good Luck. Keep us poted.
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Offline patrick

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Re: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2008, 09:47:25 pm »
Also don't make it a big deal with the puppy- they are like little kids and will manipulate you to the max  "Look MA he HURT me"  But I also supervise older dogs with pups and teach them to be careful with the babies so they can still discipline the pups but learn to do it a little softer  I attached a fav pic of mine with a big guy with a little one  I never have any real injuries either but may have periodic squeaking and squalling when a little one gets disciplined  In this pic the lil one is trying to steal Jason's bone.

Offline People Whisperer

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Re: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2008, 10:40:31 pm »
I wouldn't correct Tani either...when I had that 3-4 months old stray pup for a week, who was the most adorable thing ever BUT he constantly was taking Lily's bully sticks WHILE she was chewing on it and tried to get in her bowl WHILE she was eating. Lily is the most gentle and nonconfrontati onal dog BUT he pushed her way too far. She didn't react the first couple of days...I guess giving him another chance  :-\ He kept being rude and Lily growled at him...then tried snapping at him without physical contact... and then she made two big holes in him muzzle! He TOTALLY deserved it!!! After that he was much better :)
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Offline Ali

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Re: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 01:35:23 am »
Thanks guys! I agree that if Tani really wanted to lay a hurtin' on Kai, she would have. Luckily, my sweet girl doesn't have that kind of disposition, and I'm more inclined to think that Kai hurled herself into Tani's "warning" snap. This morning I kept the girls separated initially - one inside with breakfast and one outside. They were bummed and really wanted to be together, but I was nervous. After breakfast, I supervised them playing so they could be together. It went great and I made sure that they were interacting over a toy and not just a free for all wrestling match. They like to play tug o' war and they play very cooperatively with the same toy like that (believe it or not!). I'll continue supervising their play and hope for the best. Tani looks so pathetic and sad when Kai gets hurt. I'll work on correcting Kai, the puppy, for playing too rough and try distracting her with a toy or chewy. I will also start working with her on "leave it" - that sounds like a good idea,too. We start puppy manners class in 2 weeks, so that's good, too. I love my girls!  :)
Ali
mom of 4 humans AND
Tani (TAH-nee or rhymes with "Bonnie")- Aussie/Pittie?Boxer?Mutt!
Kai - Aussie/Dobie
Kenji - big ol' black cat
Mika and Nishi - kitty sisters, foster failures!
Tasia Ladysnake - ball python

Offline Ali

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Re: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 11:18:39 am »
Oh, and P.S. regarding socialization - I got Kai from a kill shelter. She had been brought in as a stray with her brother and her momma. So, I guess she had those two for her first three months, but I don't know what kind of people contact she had. She was actually in good shape and seemed somehow well cared for - all three seemed that way, actually. But, how can you loose a blue eyed momma aussie, and her odd eyed pups? Seems like you'd check your local shelters and all that. That seems strange. (The brother had marks and coloration like a red dobe but had a green eye and a blue eye. Kai has a blue and a brown.)
Ali
mom of 4 humans AND
Tani (TAH-nee or rhymes with "Bonnie")- Aussie/Pittie?Boxer?Mutt!
Kai - Aussie/Dobie
Kenji - big ol' black cat
Mika and Nishi - kitty sisters, foster failures!
Tasia Ladysnake - ball python

Offline MagicM3

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Re: HELP! Need dog behavior insight ASAP!!
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 06:54:33 pm »
I might not want to be heard on this one...and I don't know all that much about your dogs or how long you have had them etc...

I don't allow my dogs present or past to get in serious fights..and if blood is involved to me that is serious.

Yes pups can push their luck and the older ones usually will put them in their place..but not to the point of blood..

That doesn't mean that they can't be together..and that they won't work it out..but UNDER SUBERVISION...

Above all else YOU must be the top dog..Pack leader...whate ver way you want to call it..

Leave it is a very useful command..but young or old the one in charge is me...

Do I make mistakes of course I'm sure that I do...

And as long as there is no blood or other serious injury I will let them work things out on their own..

The three I have now can at times get out of hand...

They are sm med and large and at all stages of life and while they play all sorts of games and and sound and look like they are in a growling battling fight..the sounds and body language is what I watch..

With the three that I have at present I am thankfully and gratifully very good at reading them..and a sound or look from me and they all know the game is over ...

Sorry for the letcure..I don't mean to sound like I know it all I don't but you asked and I am glad that you are seeking advise..

Keep an eye on your fur kids..it sounds like they have a great MOM