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Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!
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Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« on: July 29, 2008, 07:25:27 pm »
Ahhhh- Sophie is out of control! We have been sooo soooo busy lately that we haven't had time to take Sophie out in public much. And now I am afraid to! I was walking her the other day and there were summer people staying in the house at the end of our road (we live out in nowhere so usually, there are no people/animals on our walks). Their beagle came flying out to see us and Sophie went nuts- growling and barking and almost pulled me over. I managed to turn us around and get away but this weekend we finally took a day off and took all the dogs to a doggy "parade" and "show" (just a cute little small town thing, very informal and Chicklet won "cutest" 
) I had Sophie on a gentle leader harness which had been working great-got it after the beagle incident. We get to the dog area and she literally pulled me down and DRAGGED me across the pavement to get to a dog, growling and barking the whole time. My pants ripped open and my knee is all torn up. So embarassing! Fortunately, she was fine once she got close to the dogs.
Why is she like this? People were afraid of her (she's 6 months and BIG). I went and bought a prong collar which the breeder reccommened but can't bring myself to use it-it looks so mean. Does anyone here use one? Does it work? Sorry so long but she is going to weigh more than I do soon and I can't let her be so crazy! here are some pics- almost as big as Binky already.
) I had Sophie on a gentle leader harness which had been working great-got it after the beagle incident. We get to the dog area and she literally pulled me down and DRAGGED me across the pavement to get to a dog, growling and barking the whole time. My pants ripped open and my knee is all torn up. So embarassing! Fortunately, she was fine once she got close to the dogs. Why is she like this? People were afraid of her (she's 6 months and BIG). I went and bought a prong collar which the breeder reccommened but can't bring myself to use it-it looks so mean. Does anyone here use one? Does it work? Sorry so long but she is going to weigh more than I do soon and I can't let her be so crazy! here are some pics- almost as big as Binky already.
Sophie-Leonberger
McDougal-Papillon
Chicklet-Papillon
Sigfried-Cat RIP Sigs
Spooky-Cat
Jasper-Nigerian Dwarf goat
Ferdinand-Nigerian Dwarf goat
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Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 07:41:57 pm »
I have used them, and will again if need be, Tonka will pull until he chokes and a prong prevents that like nothing else on the market.
I use is on Gage occasionally as well if I am walking all 3 dogs I need to use it on him as well, alone he listens well enough on a choke collar.
I am a firm believer in having control of your dog, if that means a prong then use it.
They make rubber covers for the prongs, get some of them if it will help you, but they do less damage than a choke and a dog can break its neck if it runs to the end of a leash on a Gentle Leader/Halti.
Prong collars are a training tool, and should be used as one, you may not need to use it on every outing, but if you are going into a high stimulus area then it would probably a good tool to have on hand, IMO.
I use is on Gage occasionally as well if I am walking all 3 dogs I need to use it on him as well, alone he listens well enough on a choke collar.
I am a firm believer in having control of your dog, if that means a prong then use it.
They make rubber covers for the prongs, get some of them if it will help you, but they do less damage than a choke and a dog can break its neck if it runs to the end of a leash on a Gentle Leader/Halti.
Prong collars are a training tool, and should be used as one, you may not need to use it on every outing, but if you are going into a high stimulus area then it would probably a good tool to have on hand, IMO.
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When we thought we were going to have major problems with Syrus running after deer I asked our trainer about a prong collar. She wasn't against them as long as used correctly and for training only.
She did say there was a drawback with heavily furred or double coated dogs as it is hard to get the prongs to make contact with the skin to be effective.
I found I can control both dogs at the same time by myself with a full chest harness on them. I'm not sure why, but they can't run away with me like a regular neck collar or gentle leader.
I can't believe I'm posting the picture below, not very flattering but it is of me after Sophie pulled me full out like a sled, chasing a dragonfly. You can sort of see the scuffed knees. I still have some gravel embedded in one.
She was only wearing a regular collar. The following day I took both of them for a walk with chest harnesses and a deer jumped right out in front of us. They started to take off after it, but I was able to plant my feet and hold them both! With proper "Leave it" command of course.
Might be worth a try if you haven't already.
She did say there was a drawback with heavily furred or double coated dogs as it is hard to get the prongs to make contact with the skin to be effective.
I found I can control both dogs at the same time by myself with a full chest harness on them. I'm not sure why, but they can't run away with me like a regular neck collar or gentle leader.
I can't believe I'm posting the picture below, not very flattering but it is of me after Sophie pulled me full out like a sled, chasing a dragonfly. You can sort of see the scuffed knees. I still have some gravel embedded in one.
She was only wearing a regular collar. The following day I took both of them for a walk with chest harnesses and a deer jumped right out in front of us. They started to take off after it, but I was able to plant my feet and hold them both! With proper "Leave it" command of course. Might be worth a try if you haven't already.
Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 08:57:33 pm »
I use a prong collar for Keiko although I'm in the process of once again weaing her off of it (did once in the past and she regressed to pulling once we added Gunther to the family).
I was against the idea in the beginning but I am a converted believer. I had a harness I was using with her, but it really wasn't teaching her not to pull, only that she couldn't pull with it on. And if she had it off, forget about it. I figured something around her neck that was similar to a regular collar would help with training.
I am considering getting one for Gunther but am undecided as he really only is a pest for the first 1/2 mile or so on walks.
but I digress. yes, they work great. Just make sure it is fitted properly. Someone had a link on here at one point on how to properly fit a prong collar but I have no idea where.
And Keiko is a double coated breed being husky/shep and it worked on the first correction. The only problem with her is that I leave her buckle collar on so sometimes the prong collar is going over the top of the leather collar but since she's doing well I rarely need a correction anymore and we're slowly weaning her off of it. Hopefully it will stick this time.
I was against the idea in the beginning but I am a converted believer. I had a harness I was using with her, but it really wasn't teaching her not to pull, only that she couldn't pull with it on. And if she had it off, forget about it. I figured something around her neck that was similar to a regular collar would help with training.
I am considering getting one for Gunther but am undecided as he really only is a pest for the first 1/2 mile or so on walks.
but I digress. yes, they work great. Just make sure it is fitted properly. Someone had a link on here at one point on how to properly fit a prong collar but I have no idea where.
And Keiko is a double coated breed being husky/shep and it worked on the first correction. The only problem with her is that I leave her buckle collar on so sometimes the prong collar is going over the top of the leather collar but since she's doing well I rarely need a correction anymore and we're slowly weaning her off of it. Hopefully it will stick this time.
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Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 09:01:32 pm »
I use a prong when walking Zero! he is VERY strong- and if he wants something, i do sometimes have a hard time keeping him to my side. I believe as long as they are used correctly (and only when walking/training) they are very effective!
Proud Parents of
Zero-Bull Terrier
Jigsaw-Bull Terrier
Repo- Jigsaw's baby Bull Terrier
Reba-Chinese Crested
Pavi-Xolo
Simba,Sabbath,Kimahri, Lil' Meow & Slimon-Cats
Robin the hermit crab and the 8 legged freak, Webley!
~ waiting at the bridge, Zeus and Memphis, great danes ~
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Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 10:43:51 pm »
Yes Yes Yes ..I agree with all of the above..
Until you get real control and have more time with her I would use it..
I know it looks terrible..but used correctly is is the best I have ever used..and once you and Sophie come to an understanding of what it is you want and expect I wouldn't leave the house without it..
I would make sure you get the correct size and if necessary have someone one that knows show you how to use it effectively..
keep us all posted..
Tricia and the fur kids
Until you get real control and have more time with her I would use it..
I know it looks terrible..but used correctly is is the best I have ever used..and once you and Sophie come to an understanding of what it is you want and expect I wouldn't leave the house without it..
I would make sure you get the correct size and if necessary have someone one that knows show you how to use it effectively..
keep us all posted..
Tricia and the fur kids
Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 11:08:56 pm »
For years I have used prong collars to train not only my own dogs, but my clients as well if needed. On short haired dogs I use and insist my clients use the rubber tips.
If your worried about using it here is what I have owners do....
Place the prong on you thigh (if you have a long haired thick coated dog you may do this with pants on if you have a short coated dog its bare skin )....Now give a subtle pull to the collar(Not a jerk, they are not made to be jerked) What do you feel? Pain or pressure?
They are a great tool if one learns the correct way to size and use one. I think the transition to start using one and not using one is much easier on the dog then from other training collars.
If your worried about using it here is what I have owners do....
Place the prong on you thigh (if you have a long haired thick coated dog you may do this with pants on if you have a short coated dog its bare skin )....Now give a subtle pull to the collar(Not a jerk, they are not made to be jerked) What do you feel? Pain or pressure?
They are a great tool if one learns the correct way to size and use one. I think the transition to start using one and not using one is much easier on the dog then from other training collars.
Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 01:20:24 am »
Sorry to hear of your troubles with Sophie. She may be showing signs of insecurity and needs some confidence building. Do you take her out on her own to socialize?
I just dealt with this exact same thing with my Bosco who is now a year old. He was barking and growling at other dogs around the neighbourhood(not in class or the park-??) after some not so pleasant experiences and who knows what else and why. We started desensitizing at far distances. Every time I thought we was going to react I shoved treats in his face. If he did react before I could catch him I would either turn around and walk away or I pulled up slightly with the gentle leader and he'd settle and sit and I'd start treating him. It took a few months but wow, what an improvement. I also had to tell myself to relax, be calm and have a loose leash as I'm sure I contributed to his craziness. He has also learned to watch me when he sees another dog on our walks.
I would be careful with the prong collar in that it *may* make fear based behaviour worse.
All of these management/training collars have their safety issues. If you can have two hands on the leash and only giving her enough leash to walk beside you...like two feet of loose leash...the less likely she'll be able to lunge forward and take off dragging you behind.
By the way...I have one of those newer designed Gentle Leaders. Love it.
Good luck!!
I just dealt with this exact same thing with my Bosco who is now a year old. He was barking and growling at other dogs around the neighbourhood(not in class or the park-??) after some not so pleasant experiences and who knows what else and why. We started desensitizing at far distances. Every time I thought we was going to react I shoved treats in his face. If he did react before I could catch him I would either turn around and walk away or I pulled up slightly with the gentle leader and he'd settle and sit and I'd start treating him. It took a few months but wow, what an improvement. I also had to tell myself to relax, be calm and have a loose leash as I'm sure I contributed to his craziness. He has also learned to watch me when he sees another dog on our walks.
I would be careful with the prong collar in that it *may* make fear based behaviour worse.
All of these management/training collars have their safety issues. If you can have two hands on the leash and only giving her enough leash to walk beside you...like two feet of loose leash...the less likely she'll be able to lunge forward and take off dragging you behind.
By the way...I have one of those newer designed Gentle Leaders. Love it.
Good luck!!
Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2008, 07:20:30 am »
I use a prong with Tink. If I don't I can't take her out in public. She can literally take me off my feet if she decides to lung for something or take off. She just turned 7 months and is over 90 lbs. She is really good with basic obedience but around children she gets sooo excited she is like the tazmanian devil, but we are working on it. She also knows if I put it on her we are "going for a ride", because I don't need to use it much at home. She heads straight for the back of my jeep ready to load up. It doesn't bother her a bit. My dog trainer said they are actually more humane than a flat or chain coller if your dog is a "puller". Instead of that constant strain on the neck, once she feels the pinch she stops. I used it on myself around the arm and it is a "pinch" not a "stab" the prongs actually lay on their side and pinch not poke directly at the skin. Try it on yourself and you will feel better about it. I did that with our invisible fence too. I would never use anything on her I didn't know was safe and humane. The pinch collar allows me to take her with me anywhere I want to go and exposes her to different socialization experiences which are so important for her at this age. Try it and I think you will like it.
Mom to
Tinkerbear (lab/kom mix)
Harley (Newfy/Saint mix)
Boomer (Cat-russian blue)
RIP - Tater Marie (basset 11/95 to 1/08)
RIP - Velcro (Kitten-Tiger Stripe)
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I just walked Clifford on a harness for the first time yesterday and it gave me back the control I wanted. Because you are pulling them back from the chest and front legs it is more control than just their neck with a regular collar. Alone with me he walks great, we go out a lot. When he sees another dog he pulls pretty hard sometimes just to go see it and make friends. Earlier this week he did that and slipped his collar and ran to the person and dog. Fortunately they had seen us out before and weren't too freaked out as I was screaming and trying to grab him. He still only comes when called if he wants to.
He weighs 90+ pounds right now, but I am pretty heavy and he will probably never out weigh me. If I was little like my 90 pound sister or if he was pulling to be agressive I would probably try a prong collar. You can't be in public walking a dog you don't have control over.
He weighs 90+ pounds right now, but I am pretty heavy and he will probably never out weigh me. If I was little like my 90 pound sister or if he was pulling to be agressive I would probably try a prong collar. You can't be in public walking a dog you don't have control over.
Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2008, 01:46:37 pm »
Here is the link to prong collars use:
http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html
It sounds like you need it
oops, I meant Sophie 
http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html
It sounds like you need it
oops, I meant Sophie Mary W. Crane
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it
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Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 01:53:34 pm »
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html
Another link you may find helpful.
Thank you for the link on prongs. I am still looking for the complete German study that was done. I use to have it as a hand out for my classes but have since lost it. If anyone finds it can you please let me know.
Also does anyone know if a complete true study on head halters has yet to be done?
Another link you may find helpful.
Thank you for the link on prongs. I am still looking for the complete German study that was done. I use to have it as a hand out for my classes but have since lost it. If anyone finds it can you please let me know.
Also does anyone know if a complete true study on head halters has yet to be done?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 02:00:18 pm by VdogLover »
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Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2008, 05:23:02 pm »
I use one on Jake, my pyr, whenever he gets to be too much. I can just put it on him now and he is a dream to control in public. You don't have to pull on them, at all. They actually correct themselves and it is great. All of my dogs weigh as much or more than I do. I would be afraid to take ChiChi out of the house without at least a slip chain, if not a prong collar. She is so easy to walk and doesn't need any corrections, unless she sees people or a dog that barks or growls at us. I'm convinced she would seriously hurt someone, if she got away from me, so I will keep using the prong on her, for her sake and everyone else's.
Kathy
Kathy
Jake 2 Great Pyrenees
Cody 3 Tibetan Mastiff
ChiChi 1.5 Caucasian Ovcharka
John and Nicki Maine Coon cats
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Re: Thoughts on prong collars? Need HELP!« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2008, 05:47:54 pm »
Thank you all so much for your advice. I did try the prong on my leg and it really doesn't hurt so I feel better. Sophie did go to obedience class and was perfectly behaved IN CLASS- the minute we got out, she'd revert to pulling and barking at other dogs! We will be taking another class in fall once things settle down. Tomorrow I'm going to try walking her with the prong and will let you all know how it goes. Thanks again - I won't feel like I'm a bad owner, torturing my dog, knowing that others here use a prong!
Sophie-Leonberger
McDougal-Papillon
Chicklet-Papillon
Sigfried-Cat RIP Sigs
Spooky-Cat
Jasper-Nigerian Dwarf goat
Ferdinand-Nigerian Dwarf goat
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Seriously they are great when they fit correctly and used correctly. I wouldnt take marley out in public without one! 
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