Author Topic: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!  (Read 41258 times)

lins_saving_grace

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2005, 04:05:47 pm »
technically all dogs have the potential to be dangerous.

Offline Scootergirl

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2005, 04:05:47 pm »
I know Babs is just trying to save Smohr from more disappointment . I'm confident Babs knows what she is talking about. There is definitely a difference in behavior modification for family pet purposes and behavior modification for protection-dog purposes.

Also, please keep in mind everyone that all dogs are different and it may be that Petra has more than just deep-seated emotional/behavioral issues due to past abuse. She may have suffered or been born with some neurological defects that cause unpredictable, unalterable, unretrainable behaviors.

However, thank Goodness she has us and the references from her daughter to not only explore some last-minute options but to be able to explore all sides of these options. We are not here to give her definitive answers, but advice and the benefit of our experience.

I agree she should talk to the TRAINERS before making a decision on whether or not Petra would be a viable candidate (although personally, I still doubt she is). The former police officer may be grasping at just as many straws as she is right now and may just jump at a not-so-realistic opportunity for a companion/protector.  The trainers will be a better reference to determine whether or not Petra may respond to their program.

I also encourage you to ask your vet to explore the amitriptolyne option. I don't know much more than what I told you about this drug. i think it is fairly new to the veterinary community so if your vet is not familiar with it, ask him/her to inquire about it with their local veterinary board or vet school.

I look forward to hearing how this plays out and we are behind you all the way!

Everyone: please don't let this discussion turn into a fight over whether or not fear aggressive dogs can become valuable pets or not. I see it turning in a very ugly direction.

Jeanne
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between dog and man." -- Mark Twain

Offline Senghe

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2005, 04:07:17 pm »
I wouldn't do it, personally. From the fact that it's not fair on Petra. She obviously has emotional issues caused by people before you took her on. By your own admission, she's been to several behaviourists who recommended euthanasia. Would you rather absolve your own guilt and feeling of failure by sending the poor dog to strangers she doesn't know, put her through a tough training regime she probably won't understand and be very frightened during and inevitably be found unsuitable - which you already know if you're honest with yourself - and be put to sleep in the end anyway. Or you can take your responsibiliti es head on and let her sleep in peace. You'll know where she is and the last thing she'll know is that you are with her and love her. It will break your heart to do it, I know that, but think of Petra rather than yourself.

Believe me, I do not say these things flippantly. It's hard enough putting an old, sick dog down to prevent further suffering, but a youg dog, it's simply awful.

Being cynical, this guy wants a cheap guard dog. I'm pretty sure he can buy a good, fully trained dog who is both stable and controllable. And how would you feel even if after all the training, she goes homewith this guy who is partially disabled and she snaps and attacks him like she has you? He can't get out of the way - she could potentially kill him and you could have a huge law suit in your lap, written contract or not. Even if she's kept outside as a guard dog, how on earth is she going to be with people if she gets absolutely no contact with them apart from being fed? And that's no life for a dog anyway.

edit: And can your daughter get her there safely without having to let her out of her crate? How would you feel if she bit your daughter and you weren't there to intervene?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 04:09:02 pm by Senghe »

lins_saving_grace

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2005, 04:07:56 pm »
I agree with Jeanne.  Let's leave it at this! :)  Thanks

Icerotti

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2005, 04:11:13 pm »
Jeanne I agree with you lets not let this turn into something more.  Everyone has a different opinion on this matter. I think we have all expressed it .

We have to remember we are here to support  Shmor no matter what she decides. It is a very difficult decision for her and I think she needs to know that we are here as friends . ;D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 06:39:02 pm by Icerotti »

Offline Senghe

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2005, 04:20:13 pm »
Oh definitely Icerotti. She's truly alone on this one and has to do what her conscience can live with. But she did ask for  opinions and not for everybody to agree with her.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 04:22:04 pm by Senghe »

Offline Good Hope

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2005, 04:23:20 pm »
Oh definitely Icerotti. She's truly alone on this one and has to do what her conscience can live with. But she did ask for  opinions and not for everybody to agree with her.

Thank you, Senghe.  Even for those of us who believe Petra ought to be put down, it still breaks our hearts to see anyone going through this.

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Offline mastiffmommy

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2005, 04:26:02 pm »
This is turning ugly, and noone is trying to give anyone false hopes, we see things differently, frome different aspects and nothing says who is more right or wrong. We are all individuals, and humans with feelings and thoughts.

I think we all have pretty much said what need to be said and then some, now it is up to Sherry to make the call, and no matter what we will be here to give her the support she needs. God knows I would have needed a ton of it had I been in that situation

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Offline jabear

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2005, 04:26:06 pm »
Let's remember everyone...agr ee to disagree. Once you have said what is in your heart regarding this matter, let the subject go. The decision is ultimately up Smohr and trying to force her to change her opinion is not what we are here for. She asked for our opinions, got several different ones and now needs to decide what is best for her and Petra in her heart.
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Offline Scootergirl

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2005, 04:29:33 pm »
Babs, I appreciate your brutal honesty, but there is a way to express your concerns sensitively. No one is saying you are wrong. I've gone back and re-read all the posts. Schmor definitely wants to hear all sides and she also has NOT posted that she has made a decision yet.

She definitely needs to be aware of these concerns and, if you re-read this thread, I think you'll see several others are just as concerned about these possibilities. Others may not have considered the legal and potentially tragic ramifications of this option until they were presented and have just not retracted their opinions because they have less time at home or work to spend on BPO (me, personally, I avoid real work as much as possible so I can keep up with what's going on here).

However, love often overpowers reason. That's why Sherry is looking at these other options. And, who knows, one of them might work. Petra was doing great for a while. The amitriptolyne may be just what she needs. She may also be told that she is not a candidate for the drug or the trainers, but how would she feel knowing she had sent a dog she loves to be put to sleep without exploring the possibilities?

Again, opinions, advice and previous experience are welcome. Let's try to keep level heads for Sherry's sake.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between dog and man." -- Mark Twain

Offline Anky

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2005, 04:31:11 pm »
I have to say I agree with Babs on this one.  Neos aren't typically suited for protection work because of their temperaments and already established drive.  With Petra already having issues I think it's a disaster waiting to happen.  I also agree with whoever said that the police officer is just looking for a cheap dog.  When looking for a protection dog cheap isn't the answer.  It's like you don't pick the Holy-O condoms because they're cheaper!  Is the money you save worth the consequences?
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Offline BabsT

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2005, 04:32:22 pm »
I wipe my hands of this board...I am too much of a realist for here....life isnt sugar coated and i am not about to walk on eggshells while there is a child that is in HUGE danger just so a dog can be saved
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Offline Scootergirl

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2005, 04:32:52 pm »
It's like you don't pick the Holy-O condoms because they're cheaper!  Is the money you save worth the consequences?

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Oh, Ang, you always know how to give a whole new spin on things! Thank God for you!
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between dog and man." -- Mark Twain

smohr

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2005, 04:59:58 pm »
:-\  I don't want to get anyone upset like we were before about Petra.  I do appreciate all the advice and angles looked at from everyone. 

I spoke with the ex-officer and the trainers who would work w/Petra are professionals who work w/guard dogs, attack and search dogs used in police work.  They will first evaluate Petra in this guy's house w/only one trainer.  She will be muzzled when out of the cage and working with the trainer until she doesn't show hostility with primary caretakers and the trainer. 

I told him everything about Petra and asked him if he'd be willing to sign a contract releasing me from any liability if Petra injured anyone.  He said he would.  He said he'd not let Petra around anyone until she went through thorough training and if she wasn't able to be trained, he'd inform me that she was going to be put to sleep before doing so.

The officer has 2 cages.  They will feed her in a separate cage than she sleeps in.  He has a fenced back yard to his apartment, but will walk Petra on a gentle leader after the trainer has worked and walked with her at the training center every day.  The officer was shot in his neck and has no feeling in his left arm, but can walk and has the strength to use his right hand to walk her.  His wife is also in some type of police work (didn't go into details) so she must be able to handle a dog too.   

I called the vet and was told this might be ok to let her go to a professional trainer.  I will think this through another day and if there are any doubts, I'll take her to the vet. 

Petra has been very calm today with no one visiting or in the house but me.  It seems when there are people visiting and there is a change in her routine, she gets mean.  When no one but my husband and I are here, she is fine.  I fed her today, put my hands right in her bowl as she was eating and no bites.  She bit me yesterday when the house was full of grandkids and 2 of my 3 kids here, the TV on and phone ringing.  She is calm when the house is calm, but goes crazy when there is confusion in her routine.

It's just so stinking hard looking into those sweet eyes today as she is being so good, thinking someone might be able to take her and she could live happily somewhere and not have to be euthanized.  Maybe she just cannot live where there is a lot of confusion and KIDS making noise.  Seems like KIDS and the noise and all that is what sets her off every time or right after they have left.


   

Offline newflvr

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Re: ADVICE @ PETRA??? HELP!
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2005, 05:25:44 pm »
I think giving yourself time to think is a good thing.  There is no deadline on this. 

I totally agree with those that have suggested that we all step back and let you have some breathing room.  It seems that we've all become emotionally involved with you and therefore Petra and it's only because everybody cares so much that they get upset.  As we've all said, no matter what you decide, we're with you and this is always a safe place for you to come!