A small vent about people and their dogs

[mtaig12]

Here's the background : Star is our 5yo Great Dane we adopted from rescue at Thanksgiving, so we've had her for two months now. We also have Max, a chow-akita mix, so I'm used to dealing with dogs who want to be dominant. We adopted Max from an animal shelter when he was 2yo. He had a few problems with aggression toward other dogs, but we worked through it and he loves all dogs now. He's definitely a "dog park dog."

Star is feeling more confident as a part of the family. When we first got her, she wouldn't let Max play with her.  If he came near a toy she thought was hers, she'd growl and Max would back off. After a few weeks, they started carefully playing with each other. Now, either one initiates the play, and they "attack" each other with open mouths and growls. No one has ever gotten hurt. But I know she's not a dog park dog yet, and may never be. But she is a sweetheart to people!

But I thought it would be a good time to take Star to Petsmart to get her used to seeing other dogs, that kind of thing. It was late on a weekday, so I thought it wouldn't be too crowded. And it wasn't. She ignored the couple of other dogs there, snuffled around  on the floor, and I got my bag of dogfood (we're switching them from Iams to Eagle Pack but needed a little more Iams).

There was a line (of course) at the checkout, so we waited. As I got up near the front of the line, I put my 30lb bag of dog food on the conveyor. At that moment, a PetSmart employee decided this was a good time to introduce her German Shepard to Star. They approached as I was putting down the bag of food. I never saw anything. All I heard was Star growl and then lunge forward, I pulled her back into a sit by my side, and she then ignored the GS. The employee comes up (on the other side of the line, so the dogs were separated by the counter) and apologizes and says that Star seemed friendly, wagging her tail then attacked.

Now, I know that's probably what happened. Star probably thought the other dog was a good idea, until he came at her, and she growled a warning, and he didn't like it and they went at it. The point is, the owner didn't make eye contact with me, and I was distracted when she chose to approach with her dog. Had I been involved, I could have told her that Star may growl, so she could decide if she could handle her dog.

This was Star's first trip to a pet store. She's still getting used to being a part of a family. She was probably protecting me. No, it's not great dog behavior, but I had Star under control. Star didn't advance, the GS came at her because his owner allowed it. And then it looked like I have this aggressive Great Dane. Interestingly, when we finally got to the front of the line, the guy at the register asked Star to sit and gave her a biscuit without any fear or flinching on his part. So maybe it was clear that Star wasn't the aggressor to the other people in the store.

Anywho, thanks for letting me vent.  Guess next time I'll go to PetSmart when I don't need to buy anything so I can keep an eye on the other dogs/owners!

[k2campbell]

Some dog owners are so ignorant to the fact that other dogs need to be approached with caution.  I ALWAYS ask an owner if it is ok to approach their dog before either I attempt to pet it (or) allow Kate to get close, and I appreciate the same measure be taken towards Kate in return.  Some people just think they can walk right up and everything will be ok.  Sometimes it is (but) other times it can lead to something bad happening.

She was totally at fault, especially to approach you when you weren't paying attention.  To put it simply (and bluntly), some people are just a little dumb when it comes to that kinda stuff...

Star did nothing wrong, she was (as you say) most likely protecting you and it's not her fault.  She warned the other dog (and most importantly the other owner should have taken note of Star's growl), that's all she could really do...

[longshadowfarms]

So sorry that happened to you!  It surprises me how rude and not smart some people are.  It seems to me that it happens more and more all the time.  I can't imagine approaching ANY dog without first asking the owner if it is ok.  To allow my dog to approach another dog without asking is just doubly foolish.  Happened to me the last few times at the vet.  One was a HUGE Rottie whose owner just let him come charging up to my pup who pretty naturally felt intimidated and he snipped at the Rottie.  Rottie owner gave ME the dirty look!  Then there was my Pyr who would never make the first move but he sure didn't appreciate any dogs coming running into his space.  Here's a 150 lb dog and people would just let their dogs come running up to him.  Not smart!  I always had him under control but he sure scared the snot out of a lot of dogs at the vet when he growled.  They were always the ones who had provoked it though.  He was fine as long as the other dogs gave him the respect he felt was due him.  It happened a lot because we spent TONS of time at the vet with him until we finally lost him. 

[Gypsy Jazmine]

So sorry that happened to Star!...When we are out in the world with our doggies we meet all types...It would be ideal if all people were dog savvy but being as this is not the case & Star really did well in the end it is good! ...Good luck on your next adventure!

[jinx athena's mommy]

i was in pet smart not that long ago myself and what drives me crazy is the owners of little dogs that are aggresive and think the rules don't apply to them i had athen on leash standing in the petsmart line the lady in front of us had a little long haired mop terrier of some sort in her cart no leash on it it was growling and snarling and doing every thing it could to try and get at athena including trying to leap out of the cart and launch at athena the owner caught the little rat before it got to us and u held athena but this thing wanted to try and shredd athena no kidding and the owners attitude was whatever its not like her little thing could really hurt a 'moster sized' dog like mine anyways,herwords, but that is so not the point if her dog had attacked mine and gotten hurt in the process it's my 'monster sized' dog that would have gotten blamed

[mixedupdog]

I love this Suzanne Clothier article on the subject:

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html

I have taught my boys to completely ignore other dogs when on leash.  They are NEVER allowed to greet other dogs when on-lead, they are supposed to pay attention to me.  It's not that they're dog-aggressive, they aren't, (Phyfe is sometimes a little protective).  It's that I don't want them to anticipate greeting every dog they see.  They get to interact with each other, and occasionally some friends dogs, they're socialized fine.
I have gotten more lectures and rude comments or looks from people at Petsmart when I tell them "no" when they ask if their dog can greet mine.  If they come up without warning I turn and walk away- my dogs follow without a look back. 
In the situation you describe Phyfe may have acted the same as your Dane, especially in close proximity to a bag of food.  Earnest would have probably gotten way too happy, wagging all over, slobbering and dancing, and generally being an obnoxious fool. Either way I'd have been pretty peeved. 

[ZooCrew]

I love this Suzanne Clothier article on the subject:

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html

That is a great article, even if a bit long.

My guys are also not allowed to socialize while on leash, at least not on our walks.  Only if I stop to talk to another dog owner, or if the owner stops me, are they allowed to say hello.  Luckily, in Petsmart/Petco I haven't had any problems with other owners.  Although usually people are very careful about coming up to us and I think about 98% of the time I have been asked first if it is alright.  Most people with dogs avoid us, although I'm not sure why, both of mine are perfectly friendly and usually ignore other dogs unless they are coming up to say hello.

[enuffpaws]

As ZooCrew posted, I do not allow my dogs to socialize while on walks and they are on lead. That is work time, and I also want their attention on me and not nose to the ground scenting squirrels and meeting people. At PetSmart I do allow them to socialize with people if properly approached.
Went to PetSmart a couple of months ago with all three dogs, leashed, with 5 of us 18 or older in tow. We get done shopping and are in the checkout line, Merlin on a short leash in a sit stay with me at the end of the counter as Stella paid the bill.
Out of nowhere, comes a little dust mop, on a 20' retractable leash, with owner 15 ' away. It leapt up straight into Merlin's face, growling. Sit stay gone, and I have a frantically plunging 140 LB great dane on my hands as he tries to get away. Luckily I already had Mer on a short leash and was able to get between he and the dustmop. I was able to get him back into a quick if uneasy sit stay. The owner of the essentially uncontrolled dust mop thought it was hillarious, and it just pissed me off.
If Merlin would have responded to the unprovoked attack, we would be the ones in trouble not the silly old woman with the dust mop. Why is it that some people think if their dogs are small they are exempt from manners? So I just don't get why people think that it is OK to just approach us and our dogs, either alone or with their dogs without uttering a sound. At the very least, let the dog and owner know that you are coming and ask permission.
Dale

[enuffpaws]

Julie,
The trainer that we have always worked with does not allow socialization between dogs during class, and that has always helped keep them focused and able to concentrate on you instead of other dogs. We start out teaching the simple command "Watch Me." and reinforcing it with treats. They learn that before they even learn a sit. It allows you to redirect their attention back to you. If you are in motion at the time, try an abrupt change of direction, or alter speed. Both of them force their attention back to you. If you can walk your dogs where you know there are dogs in fenced yards that may rush the fence and start a rukus. If your dog reacts, whether to stop or sniff, a collar correction and the command "walk On" with out changing your speed is a great training exercise for distractable dogs. How old is Gweck, because I know of a great trainer in the suburbs that you could work with, although he prefers dogs under 2 YO. PM me if you are interested.
Dale

[ZooCrew]

I'm working on the "watch" command now, although I'm using it for another purpose.  It was easier for me, b/c I had Keiko first.  She has never been interested in seeing other dogs other than the occasional hairy dog she is attracted to (she likes her men big and hairy).  But I have used "leave it" for her rabbit and squirrel chasing on walks, and transposed that to when she occasionally did want to see another dog.

Gunther did go thru a phase where he would want to go say hello to everyone we passed.  It took me awhile to notice b/c he always walked behind me, and never lunged to greet anyone, simply stuck his head in that direction, then caught up with us.  He also learned the "leave it" command, one we are still working on b/c I rarely need to use it with him.  I think he learned from Keiko, along with the occasional "leave it" that walks were for walking and not for socializing.

I would simply find a command you want to use for her to ignore the other dogs or people, and use that along with a slight correction if she needs some reinforcement.  It does depend on age as to how fast they may catch on to what you want, especially if she's been used to doing it for awhile.  But it only took about a month before Gunther totally ignored other dogs.  It also helps that where we walk there is a high concentration of dogs, so after awhile, it is no big thing to them to be passing dogs left and right, therefore there is no need to get excited about it.

[mixedupdog]

I taught Earnest by taking him to busy places like the park, the ball field, and Petsmart where people and dogs would walk by frequently. As soon as he "alerted" on something (ears up, attention drawn) then I'd have him sit. I held a treat enclosed in my fist, and whenever his attention wavered I'd move the hand with the treat around his nose, even sometimes opening my hand enough for him to sniff it or even try to lick it, but not enough for him to get it.  He didn't get the treat until the distraction passed.  If he bounced up from the sit he got a correction and back into the sit.   
So instead of teaching him to pay attention to me with a command or correction, I taught him by this method to look to me whenever something interesting happens.  (by watching his behavior and distracting him when he became intent on something).
Now I have a dog who comes back to me, even off lead, when other dogs approach while we're hiking, or if something unexpected happens. He even returned to me when a deer jumped up out of the grass and ran away just a few feet from him!  It took a few months for him to be solid on it, and once he was sitting and looking at me automatically when another dog approached I added a long line and instilled the habit of returning to me.  One of the big keys to this was not allowing anyone to greet him or pet him while we were practicing. 

[schelmischekitty]

i know that feeling!  i have a 130-150lb (he is a finicky eater and his weight goes up and down depending on how much he likes what i give him) and went to petsmart one time, and was loading out dog food into the buggy, i usually buy 120lbs at a time because we have 5 dogs, and a couple walked up with their danes (no offense, because i have one too, but they were very immature danes with little dog on dog experience) and they let them get right in axle's face (my akita) and that started WWIII.  all i could do was apologize because axle had nipped and made a big fuss when both of them approached and got right up on him.  i guess some people think all dogs get along if they're the same size??