Author Topic: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin  (Read 7803 times)

Offline Rachel

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Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« on: March 06, 2006, 03:49:35 pm »
This was posted on another group and I found it very interesting and eye opening. 

http://www.terrierman.com/rosettestoruin.htm
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Offline ZooCrew

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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 07:58:22 pm »
That is a very interesting article, and I agree with most of his points.  Of course, terriers are not the only ones affected by breeding for looks and not purpose.

He had a bulldog skull, which to me is the breed that has seen the most change over the years.  If you look at just about every breed, if not every breed, they have changed dramatically over the past 100 yrs........... .some of them dramatically changing in even less time (as shown by the bull terrier skulls at the top of the article)

It greatly saddens me that dog shows seem to be more concerned with the appearance of the animal rather than the original function or even the animal's health.  Some breeders are trying to change that, but I don't know if there is enough of them to really make a difference in the future of the dogs.

Offline Rachel

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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 08:52:02 am »
I agree with you.  It is so sad that working dogs can not longer do their original work because their appearance has changed so much.   I understand that yes a dog's appearance will change over the years but I can not believe how drastic the changes are.  It would be very interesting to see the changes that have occured in some of the larger breeds like mastiffs and great danes.
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Offline Moni

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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 09:27:59 am »
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/52/18058

here is another good article.  I too agree with most of their points.  Another good example of this are show German Shepherds.  It really is a shame.
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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 09:59:47 am »
Made me want to stand up and cheer!!!  Only to true!  It's really sad to see these noble breeds turning into useless mutts.  WHile it's true that fewer people are shooting birds to feed their fmilies, and fewer wild bulls need to be brought down with a bulldog, they still should be able to perform in their given class.  Pitties that are hunted and whom are bred to hunt, rarely look anything like one in the showring.  Borders that come from working stock and are bred specifically for working stock also don't resemble show stock.  And probably most alarming are the GSDs.  Working stock actually have hips!!! 

I'm trying to picture putting Bella or Foster onto a boar...ROFL!!!  They'd get eaten in 30 secs flat!

Offline connolly

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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2006, 10:10:31 am »
I'm pretty confident if I put a keg of Brandy around their necks and sent them out in the snow they could find someone.. Of course Seamus would manage to eat through thrandy barrel and drink it long before he got there... Irish name you know, and Sassy would lay on top of the poor victim hopefully keeping them warm like she sleeps with me at night till I'm soooo hot I have to use the squirt bottle to get her off the bed. As far as getting help? think not, although Sas might bark enough to draw attention....
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Offline chaos270

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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2006, 04:47:30 pm »
I think it is eye-opening but all the dogs I own I'm sure they could go out and do their jobs....but they weren't bred for show.  My grandparents raised english setters as hunting dogs.  The Irishes we've had were untrained hunters,  Sammy used to find stuff for us and chase the rabbits.  Mackey our ex racing greyhound caught one of the wild rabbits.  Lacey still has major herding tendencies and Kali has her strong affinity towards water and she gets concerned for her humans if your laying down or are in distress. 
    I don't mind the change from they're purpose because as said they aren't needed to do those jobs anymore and those that are do have lines that stay true to their purpose.  What bothers me is that health is no longer as important as the perfect head.  Breeders should be breeding for health more than the standard.  There is a breeder near me who we plan to get our future newfs from because her newfs live well into their late teens because she breeds for a good pet quality rather than for show.
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Offline mal-coholic

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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 01:57:55 am »
This is all very interesting for me...

In a few words, i suppose it all depends on the reason you want the dog for. Generaly,if you want a show dog you don't really care if it can work or not (i'm not saying this is good). If you want to work out you will chose a dog from working lines. It's great if the same dog can win both in shows and work field. Ex: we have a Mal here in Romania who is great in dogshows, won BOB in a big dog show in autumn and in Feb he was first positioned in a sled-contest of speed, at 5 dogs category. (The owners also have a Mal that pulled a car at a TV show here, beating the record in our country, but this one is not show-quality)

I live in a different area in the contry and I don't have so much snow like this ppl, but when we have snow we always go with Carlos and he gets to pull the sled (he can take 2 adults with no effort). And he is a Champ in dogshows. So there are dogs that do both. (guess i'm trying to always see the good part of thinks, me, being optimistic and all  :) )

And if you read the standard of a Alaskan Mal, it describes the working dog. (one of many reasons I absolutely love this breed is they are dogs that haven't changed much from their assumed beginings)

Hope I didn't disturb anyone, it's just a personal opinion.

I agree there are breeds that cannot fulfill their original purpose anymore, or not properly, at least. 
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Offline Senghe

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Re: Interesting article - Rosettes to Ruin
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 06:07:38 am »
One thing I can say about Tibetan Mastiff is so far they haven't changed much from the look of the original engravings from the first Western contact with them and even the art of Tibet itself. If they ever gain popularity, I wonder how long this will last? Flynn can and does do the job he was bred to do - guard his family and home.

As for shar-pei... have you got all day? Let's just say I'll go for a moderate dog with good conformation of any breed over a flashy one that's of a type that's in vogue.

I do think it's quite sad the direction that most breeds have gone in the name of showring fashion. This is one of the reasons I prefer the German lined GSD's as their ancestors have to pass health, temperament and working ability tests as well as gaining show titles. If I ever go to a show and glance at the GSD ring, it's quite shocking as the huge range of shapes and sizes of dogs in the same class can't be right.

I've got a book here that's so old it doesn't even have a copyright or printing date. Even the show standards are done in the style of points for each part of the body. I think it's from around the 1930's and it has some lovely photographs. If anybody wants me to put a couple of photos up, just let me know what breeds you'd like and I'll see if they have any. These are all named dogs so are good representative s of their breed in England of that time.