Author Topic: How should puppies be raised???  (Read 19966 times)

Offline mastiffmommy

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How should puppies be raised???
« on: May 31, 2005, 04:29:26 pm »
I am throwing out that question after I visited my MIL over the weekend. She had dobie puppies and I dont think we have the same idea about how puppies should be kept or taken care of. I am not saying my way is the right so it would be interesting to hear what you all think.

First of all, the mama is 5 years old and had puppies for the very first time, to me that is a bit too old for a first litter. The puppies are now 5 weeks old and she has them separated from their mom the whole day, they only get to nurse and be with her during the night. To me the mama looked like she was not comfortable, since she is nursing during night, she is still producing milk, but then has to be without any nursing the whole day so she seemed very "milk heavy" and a bit hard and red and warm. The puppies, being only 5 weeks, well I think they need to see a bit more of their mommy than only at night, after all 5 weeks isnt very old  :)

They have a puppy box in the garage, it is an attatched garage so its not like they are in an "outhouse" but since it gets rather hot here during daytime, and there is no aircond. or heat, I have a hard time seing how she can keep a good temp in there at all times. The box has wood shavings, you know the kind you can buy in stores for pocket pets, it must have been cedar in it too because it smelled like that. The puppies had eye discharges, not a lot but it was absolutely there, and I was thinking that the dust and little particles from the shaving may cause that, but I dont know. And the over all impression of the puppies was that they were not clean, a little dusty and just  not the shiny, nice looking coats you usually see on pups, and the nice wonderful puppy smell, well their breath but not their bodies. It is 3 girls and 1 boy

She has been breeding dobies for years, or rather she used to breed for years, have not in the last 10 or so, until this litter that is. She is going to keep one and give one to my sister in law, the two other well, she asked me to look up a place on internet, a site to sell the puppies  :o She had heard from the guy who is the owner of the male, that he always sold them on the net, because he got so much more for them there, than he did if he just sold them around here....... I did see the "breeder" who had the male and how he keeps his dogs, and hmmmm it is not so bad so you could report it, but small runs, and I mean SMALL, dirty and poop everywhere in there, since it was so small they pooped everywhere and he obviously didnt clean up too often. He had like 7 to 8 females and said he had about 10 litters a year. Sooooo obvious that the only reason he is breeding is for the money, not for the good of the breed, not because he loves dogs, just for the money.... and that makes me feel sick to my stomach.

Soooo there I was, trying to nicely point out the things I thought the puppies and their mom needed but even though she didnt say anything I know she will not do anything about anyting and thought I was a big "know it all'er" Soooo how would you all keep puppies, how do you keep them if you breed??

Marit
what the lion is to a cat, the mastiff is to a dog

nickerbokker

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2005, 04:57:53 pm »
well, here's what we did.

bailey had 11 puppies, 1/3 were born in the car in my lap, and half were born at home in the kitchen in one of those kiddie pools.  we had a ton of blankets that we changed out and washed every few hours....we had everything bailey needed for a nice rest right outside of the pool so she could still be right by them, but could have mom time.  we pretty much were with the puppies the whole 9 weeks.  i skipped school, or one of my two sisters did every day.  we rotated every day so that someone was always home and handling them.  not because we wanted to raise them properly, but because we were madly in love and couldnt stand to be away from them.  since they all couldn't eat at once, we rotated them 6 in and 5 out at a time.  the out puppies were being held and kissed and smelled constantly, and then they would get to eat.  sam the father, was also allowed in whenever he wanted....but he really didn't care all that much to be.  he wanted to be out and about in the yard.  i dont know how old they were when we started to give them puppy food, but they got that along with milk.  bailey cut off the nursing all on her own, we didnt stop it.  but the puppies were in the house in the kid pool until they could get out, and then my uncle built this cool pen for them that was in the kitchen also....it was filled with blankets and newspaper for easy clean up.  at 8 weeks, their pen was put in the garage, but trust me, they were still ALL always inteh house, ESPECIALLY when mom wasnt home or watching LOL.  we tried to get them used to being alone for the last 2 weeks...but i assure you, at 5 weeks, they were still with eachother and their mom!  THEY STILL NEED HER AT THAT POINT!  and i would never put those shavings in my pen.  i dont know if any of you do, but that just seems bad for them to me.  i dont know though.

anyway...a not helpful post, but its always fun to remember and think about those little babies!

Offline mastiffmommy

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2005, 05:21:53 pm »
Ohhhh it is helpfull too, at least for me (maybe not for MIL lol....) I didnt agree with what I saw, I didnt like the shavings, especially since I saw the puppies eyes were not clear, and like you said 5 weeks to me is too young to be taken away from mommy. And there was just something that you cant put your finger on, that seemed off (except the things that were real obvious) the puppies were super friendly and loving and I am sooooo not social, because everyone else was eating and talking and grilling and I put my behind down on the grass where Malin and the other kids had put down the puppies and I sat there until we left, hubby made me a plate and I ate there too. They were just too much fun to not be with.

Marit
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Offline Jaimie

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2005, 06:03:19 pm »
I do not agree with what you saw either, it is very sad :'(  You would have thought that the breeder would know enough to change the bedding due to the fact that the pups had eye problems, that is very stupid.  I don't raise puppies and I never have but I do know that 5 weeks is too early to be away from the mother for such a long period of time.

Have you thought about maybe calling the spaca on this person?  Would that be possible?  These puppies should not be kept this way.  Please keep us posted.

nickerbokker

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2005, 06:06:37 pm »
marit, i thought you took pix of the babies for us!  or are the pix too sad to share?

Offline mastiffmommy

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2005, 06:12:08 pm »
Nope..... hubby is too sad  ::) For some reason the disk I used wont work in the comp. it comes up saying it needs to be formatted, do I want to do that??? So I sent the disc with hubby to transfer over to a cd, that was yesterday..... .... That disc still sits on his desk at work, I will post as soon as he gets it done, I will call and remind him tomorrow. They are real cute, believe me, had it been bad to the point where they were really suffering, I would have called animal control on her, being my MIL or not.

Marit
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nickerbokker

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2005, 06:17:41 pm »
screw animal control...i would have gotten her drunk, or slipped her a roofie, put the mom and pups in the car, and driven like a bat out of h*ll!

Offline ting1sf

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2005, 06:47:43 pm »
I like nicker's idea hehe. i don;t have a lot of puppy rasing expirence. But something doesn't sound right.... i was staying with my aunt when her doggie had babies. And it was always left to the mother to wean the babies. (her doggie had two litters). The mother knew when it was time and did it on her own. My aunt also used blankets and old clothes. i don;t even use Ceder for my guniea pigs and rats cause it is really bad for them. So i don;t know why anyone would use it on puppies.......
I rather love a dog than a human. Because you put  100% into a dog , you get 200% back. As for humans you sometimes you get nothing back.

GYPSY JAZMINE

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2005, 06:56:38 pm »
Cedar shavings cause upper respitory problems in guinea pigs, bunnies, etc...I would imagine that pups would be no different...Ha ve you smelled that stuff?...It would be like breathing toxic fumes on little lungs..That's all just too sad.

nickerbokker

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2005, 07:01:33 pm »
im not kidding...i was going to start a thread about wood chips. 

i was the the busch stables at grants farm....and they had their 3 dalmations in a stable and it was covered with woodchips.  i thought it was odd...but more so, i was FASCINATED that they could put their dogs in there and they wouldn't eat themselves sick on it! 

not saying the puppies would....but how would one puts dogs in that stuff and not expect them to eat it?!?!?  im very curious about this, because i know the devil would eat them JUST to piss me off.

Offline mastiffmommy

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Re: How should puppies be raised??? - pics-
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 03:58:17 pm »
Some pics of MIL's puppies, they were adorable and I wanted to bring them all home.

me too had heard about the cedar, and with the unclear eyes they had, I am pretty sure it was both that and the dust from the chips.

Marit
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nickerbokker

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2005, 04:01:36 pm »
they look big and active and healthy for 5 weeks!  angus was 3 lbs LOL, and you all know he was the size of a mouse by his pix!

are they on regular food?  its not even soaked in water or anything?

I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU DID NOT GANK ONE FOR ME!  IM HURT!

Offline greek4

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2005, 08:01:09 am »
I foster a lot of young litters.  Five weeks is very young to be away from Mom, six weeks is usually the youngest.  I have had litters a lot younger due to issues with the mothers.  The pups should be ok being away from Mom so early if they are kept together.  Being together helps them learn soft bite, sharing, etc, how to be a dog.  Wood chips of any kind are not a good idea, choking, eating, splitters, dust...I also have my dogs to help teach them proper behavior.

I keep the puppies (younger than 6 weeks) in my dog room in a large metal crate with an expen area attached to the dog.  They have newspaper spread everywhere.  A few clean towels in the cage.  This helps them learn to poop and pee on the paper outside the cage.  I work everyday so when I get home the pup area is nasty, a little clean newspaper, water, and towels which takes 15 minutes tops to replace and the pups are as good as new.  Daily trips outside to see the neighbor kids helps to socialize them.

Once they reach 8 weeks, depending on weather, they go into my indoor/outdoor shed.  Inside the shed there is a concrete pad and large rocks.  Outside is an 8x10 area of grass and dirt to potty in.  the puppies are alright outside because they have shade in the shed and shade outside.  And at  6-8 weeks they can reliably regulate their body temperature.  Sometimes I feel bad about putting them outside but they are fine, they have everything they need, more space, and my house will eventually lose the poop smell that 5 - 10 puppies create.

It is always best to keep them with Mom as long as possible (up to 9-12 weeks, I suppose).

I hope that helps.
Thanks,

Emily and 1 husband, 1 boy, 1 on the way, and 4 crazy dogs

ann

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2005, 08:55:50 am »
i think its sad ,i think alot of people just don't have the compations most of us do,i could never breed my dogs for one to do it right cost alot of money ,with all the health testing and such but more so is the emotions i would have giving the pups up and the consern for the mother ..and always the thought about all the homeless dogs i don't think we need anymore pups brought into the world we need to take care of the ones that are already here.......... ......

   at 5 weeks thier is alot that mom should be teaching those pups and she needs to complete the natrual process of weaning the pups from her........

keep us updated...ann

Offline Mackeba

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Re: How should puppies be raised???
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2005, 08:01:23 pm »
I think the conditions these pups are being raised in is horrible...in a garage,alone,cedar shavings,heat  :o OH MY!! I have been raised with dogs my entire life dad raised dogs,grandparents here and in England raised dogs they all believed mom should have a big part in deciding when and how the pups should be weaned BUT there are exceptions My dad had a dobie bitch that refused to have anything to do with her pups once they were three weeks old...she would play with them protect them and such but she would NOT feed or clean them from age 3 wks to 4 wks she would barf food for them ewww and my dad would feed them gruel,if she was made to nurse them she would snarl at them,now I know this all may sound awful beacause the pups were so young being 3-4 weeks but the pups did not seem to suffer at all from it they grew well and were all very haelthy and Bella never lost a pup they all survived and were well adjusted...my grandparents also had a 2 females that were a bit odd one Grace would feed her pups FOREVER!!! and she tried to clean their poop till they went home at 12 weeks,they allowed her to wean her pups herself on her last littter and she ended up nursing them till they were nearly 12 weeks which at that time they nearly lost mom due to calcium defficiency,with prior litters they always started a weaning schedule with this female because they feared her getting ill and their vet said they should not allow her to give such constant care after 4-5 weeks old...his theory in the wild wolves have to leave to hunt for hours at a time and the young are left in a den and they are ok.....the other female they had Lady only had 2 litters both which she decided not to care for after the pups reached nearly 2 weeks old,the first litter they thought maybe she was a new mom and unsure what to do so they had set feeding times where they sat with her every 2-4 hrs round the clock to feed her pups,after the second litter of her not wanting to feed the pups she was spayed...some say it depends on how good the dogs mom was wether her pups will be good parents well that is not true....Lady was a daughter from Graces last litter....I have a Pit bull that I bottle fed from 11 days old that was a foster mom to abandoned kittens,puppies and even raccoons and she was a great mom and she only knew her mom for 11 days and in that time most of her siblings were killed by her mom and dad(long story,back yard breeder with dogs in a shed)......well  what I am saying is some dogs will wean at a younger age and still be fine and some dogs need help weaning pups...BUT all females should have access to their pups...if they are on a weaning schedule then mom should be able to still see and sniff them thru a gate,crate or something similiar....yo ur MIL pups do appear to be a healthy weight.....as for solid hard food each litter is different 5 week old Dobie pups dont generally have trouble chewing a hard meal as they do have a good amount of teeth showing by then some breeds such as Bostons,Pugs need more time with soft food....I would prefer a mix of soft and hard foods to ensure they are eating enough with the soft but to give them a chance to chew and help teeth with harder food with SMALL bits depending on the individual litter....you really need to judge feeding individually from litter/breed...living conditions should always be clean in a temprature controled enviroment in an area which allows interaction and socilization.. ..but some people think differently!!